Can my Class Rank Screw me Over From Getting into USC? High GPA and (relatively) high SAT score

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
1

My class rank is an abysmal 233/650 according to my guidance counselor, which is extremely confusing to me since I go to a middle-class to middle-upper-class high school in Canada. I am one of approximately 150 IB students, and only approximately 40 IB Diploma students in my grade.

Most universities in the US consider my GPA a 4.0, as does my school. My SAT score is a 1450/1600 (680 Reading and Writing, 770 Math).

Do you think a university such as University of Southern California would find this odd that I am ranked so low for my school? I feel that my school does not give extra weight to IB courses. Also, how can I try to mitigate this? I am planning on taking the SAT again in October, as well as the SAT subject tests in November.

How important is Class Rank to most universities?

2

I also received 2 6s on my IB exams for IB Math SL and IB Biology SL respectively

3

Check with your guidance counselor to see whether there’s some sort of error-- no one here can do that, since we don’t know how they calculate class rank.

Then adjust your applications/expectations accordingly.

4

If your class rank is below 70the percentile, your 4.0 GPA does not worth much.

5

Grade inflation makes your GPA a useless statistic.

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@issacF2

So, your class rank puts you ~in the top 1/3 or so of your class. Not the end of the world.

Secondly, you have other good quantitative scores for a school to work with (IB in particular.) While it would be “more awesome” to be 1/650, any competitive school, like USC, knows how to evaluate IB scores. Class rank will be one part of what they look at (if it is on your transcript. If not, they won’t bother to chase it down.) but if the class rank appears to be the outlier when your GPA, IB scores, SAT composite and Subject scores and/or ACT scores and reccomendations say otherwise, they will likely vastly underweight the class rank. (and, fwiw, in the Common Data set USC marks Class Rank as merely “considered” - not “important” or “very important”)

At the same time, (and you probably know this) be aware that US college admissions are very competitive and can be/seem very capricious. So don’t count on “one” school just because your stats are in range. Many competitive schools turn down many qualified candidates simply due to number of opening available. But your test scores, at this point are well within/in higher range for USC’s admissions. Be aware that at USC (as well as other competitive US schools) each “college” or school within the University has its own stats. So USC Cinema Arts is among the hardest programs to get into in the US anywhere, by sheer numbers. Viterbi (engineering) and Marshall (business) are reported to be more competitive than Dornsife (Liberal Arts and Sciences). So, your chances will be different at different schools/colleges. But if you got passing scores for all your IB’s as well as two 6s you should be 36+ which will be ok for some competitive schools. (If you were more in the 38 range, all the better.)

Fix your class rank with the school if there is an error. Find out if it appears on your transcript. If it does, be sure in your applications to emphasize that you were an IB student, took it voluntarily to challenge yourself (ie. not everyone at your school took it.) If you can get your GC to indicate that in a rec letter as well, more the better. But concentrate on your essays, researching schools (why do you want to blow 280k of your parents money at SC when you could go to McGill or UBC for 25k? There are some legit reasons, but that’s a lot of dough to spend for sunshine and cheerleaders.) Also, talk to your parents or whoever is paying to make sure you really can pay the bills. US college is crazy expensive. And you’ll probably have to fly there etc. Don’t make the mistake of getting your heart set on USC or someplace expensive only to get in and realize you can’t afford to go.

Meanwhile here is what USC’s admissions page says, fwiw:

"Grade Point Average

When assessing grade point average, consideration is also given to class rank and to the strength and frequency of Advanced Placement or International Baccalaureate course work in a student’s curriculum. Naturally, we are interested in consistently strong academic performance throughout the four-year high school record. However, we realize that some bright students, for one reason or another, may encounter difficulties in ninth grade. In these cases, special attention is given to steady and substantial improvement throughout the sophomore, junior and senior years."

7

“…that’s a lot of dough to spend for sunshine and cheerleaders.”

Quote o’ the day @Calidad2020. Classic. Thanks for a good chuckle. :slight_smile:

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@CaliDad2020 Thank you so much for your lengthy response.

My parents are well enough off financial to support having me go to an American university without debt or loans. I want to go to USC because it is a strong computer engineering school located in California, which is where I intend to live, work, and eventually become an American citizen. My uncle, who does research in a foreign country as a prof vouched for USC’s reputation among computer engineering/science, and from recent rankings, I’ve seen that USC is 4th most in volume for hires out of “top 25 silicon valley companies”. The only Canadian university I saw on that ranking was Waterloo, at 16th place, which I will definitely consider if I am accepted there. I feel that UBC and U of T are a “tier below” Waterloo in regards to industry reputation in technology, especially for Silicon Valley, which is why I am applying to states schools to keep my options open.

Also, after asking my guidance councilor he said that they count ALL courses in my school for class rank and do not weight IB courses as more difficult. Essentially, “easier courses” such as cooking, yoga, and “dash two and dash three courses”, which are courses that are less complex than the standard Alberta curriculum are used in class rank calculation. What is your opinion on my class rank now?

Note: I go to a top 10 school in Alberta.

P.S.: What is your opinion on applying to American public schools such as Berkeley, UCLA, Georgia Tech, Texas-Austin, Illinois Urbana-Champaign as a Canadian? If I am accepted into USC and Berkeley, would it be worth going to Berkeley since they are higher ranked in regards to computer engineering/computer science? USC is direct-admission into majors whereas Berkeley is not.

Thanks again

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@bjkmom @Muad_dib @CADREAMIN @billcsho

Note: I go to a top 10 school in Alberta.

After asking my guidance councilor, he said that they count ALL courses in my school for class rank and do not weight IB courses as more difficult. Essentially, elective courses, such as cooking, yoga, and “dash two and dash three courses”, which are courses that are less complex than the standard Alberta curriculum are used in class rank calculation. What is your opinion on my class rank now?

10

I think class rank is one of the most insignificant measures in an application. Mine attended two different high schools, and neither provided a class rank. To keep it easy, just make the rest of your app so good that class rank is totally irrelevant.

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@IsaacF21

Again, find out if class rank is even recorded on your transcript. If not, most US colleges won’t even bother to track it down. If it is, you’ll want to, someplace, simply make sure your IB program and IB scores clearly show that you took a more difficult track than most students. What is your final IB score? Competitive U’s will know how to look at that. Your IB score and your grades in academic classes will matter. Many schools will pretty much ignore non-academic course grades. You subject scores or ACT subscores will also matter. If your class rank is 33% and your GPA (you must have a 100 pt system right?) is 85 UW and your IBs are 22 and your SAT subjects are 600, that will suggest one thing. If your class rank is 33% and your GPA is 93 UW and your IBs are 35 and your SAT subjects are 700, that will suggest another. Don’t worry about class rank if it is the outlier. If on the other hand all or most of your scores are below a U’s 50% mark, it becomes a reach for sure.

As far as program/ranking etc. Be very careful about making decisions based off rank. It’s a really, really, reeeeaaalllly blunt metric. Waterloo, for instance, is incredibly well respected for CS, as is U of T (esp with their co-op program.)

USC is as well (esp in the worlds of 3D animation/autocad/solidworks etc.) and USC is working very hard at bumping up it’s rep even more. But if you are applying to Viterbi know it will be more difficult than USC overall - and has lower admit rate… UCBerkeley (Cal) has 2 CS programs: One is in the Engineering college and you apply directly to the major (I think - you should confirm) and is very compeititve. The other CS program is in the Lib Arts college and is less competitive for admission, in that I don’t think you need to apply directly to the major. Again confirm, I have not been through this process in a couple of years and might not remembrer correctly.) One thing, as an Out of State applicant you will need higher scores than the “Regular” CA UC applicant for almost any UC school (perhaps not Mercer, Riverside or Santa Cruz, but not sure.) And you will have to pay the OOS tuition, which is about as high as any private US school.

I would really try to visit Cal, UCLA, USC, UCSD, UCSB if you are serious about attending. They are very different schools with very different feel. The others you mention are great schools too, but you have kind of picked the most challenging engineering programs for an OOS student to get into (they are all state schools, for the most part.) UMich and UWash-Seattle are also very good US state schools for CS. But there are great private schools too that won’t be much different in costs and may have more resources for students.

I would wonder what it is you are really looking for in a school. There are so many good CS programs out there. Do you want to be in Illinois or CA? Georgia? Are you sure you want that big of a school? Do you care how many courses you can take outside the engineering major? USC/Viterbi requires a certain # of GE courses as well as 2 (?) writing courses on top of the required ABET program. Other schools have other requirements.

I would spend some time on the various school’s websites and get a better idea of what the schools have to offer and why you might want to go. Spending that much money (even if it’s not yours) should involve a lot of due diligence.

And I would really not overlook UofT, McGill or Waterloo. (If I were you I’d make a deal with your folks - go to UofT and have them give you 1/2 of the money you saved to fund your start-up!)

Hope this helps. One tip, if you are going to apply to USC do so before Dec. 1 of your Senior Year as that is the cut off for merit aid and there is a rumor that USC might consider students that apply after Dec 1 as perhaps less interested in SC. Schools in the US want to know you want to go there if they accept you. (helps their Yield number.)

Good luck!