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If fact, I have no hesistation in recommending U of Tulsa, which is stronger academically than OU.
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<p>Yep, that is true. And, that is why they are competing with each other in a nice friendly rival to get the smartest kids possible into their Undergrad programs. I think that is the nicest form of competetion out there, really. Beats what happens sometimes to Universities which are very focused on the SEC and whatnot at the full expesnse of academics. </p>
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Why throw bricks at any school that will offer a full ride to somebody who doesn't carry a football?
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<p>I do not understand that either. I wish someone would elaborate on that.</p>
<p>Oh, here we are with our small minded coastal provincialism! I graduated from UC Berkeley. It was a great experience. </p>
<p>However, I have lived on both coasts and in between. I am SO glad I have lived all over and I wish the same for my daughter is she is so inclined. The mid-west is a very, very rich place in many ways and I'm a much better person for having lived there. College is NOT about architecture or Nobel Laureates (whom neither you nor your child will ever see or learn from). It's a time to fall in love with a subject and have the peace and calm for study and reflection. It's also a time to wake up to ideas you might never have considered. Great teachers are everywhere. Great teachers are what it's all about.</p>
<p>I know people who teach in prestigious schools here in the northeast and for the most part they are so busy backstabbing one another and frantically publishing that teaching takes a distant back seat.</p>
<p>If you must live on one coast or another (and I love my blue state), try to be as open as the blue-state image suggests and really embrace diversity. There are actually brilliant people, virgin olive oil, NPR, Volvos and, yes, Starbucks out there in the "middle of nowhere." There are also open spaces and sane people and a kind of sanity you won't find anywhere else.</p>
<p>This thread prompted me to check out the NMS website. I was surprised to see how many southern colleges seem to favor the program. Almost none from the northeast. I jotted down a few schools with big numbers, but the report wasn't clear on whether or not these scholarships were renewable, full rides, etc.:</p>
<p>U Texas Austin - 202
U Florida - 188
USC - 159
Arizona State - 136
U Chicago - 139
Vanderbilt - 133
Northwestern - 133
Wash U S.L. - 120
U Oklahoma - 111
UNC Chalep Hill - 107
Rice - 104
Texas A & M - 101
NYU - 97
UCLA - 92
U Arizona - 86
BYU - 73
Georgia Tech - 71
Purdue - 66
U Tulsa - 62
U Alabana - 55
Baylor - 55
Emory - 41</p>
<p>Does anyone know where you can see the cut off scores for each state? I've heard NJ has the highest cutoff score. Is that true?</p>
<p>I get very tired of the flyover mentality, a near total lack of understanding of U.S. geography, the mistaken impression that we live amidst vast nothingness and still drive covered wagons to go to the grocery store, and look-down-your-nose smirking about how we're intellectually inferior here in the middle of the country. I realize that those those who feel this way are the minority, but it still irks me.</p>
<p>Smart people live everywhere. Dumb people live everywhere. A college education teaches you how to THINK, grow, and adapt. The rest is up to you once you get the sheepskin.</p>
<p>To the OP: is OU your state school? If not, then did you and your son even consider it before you found out that he would be getting a full scholarship no matter what? If the answer to both questions is "NO" then I would suggest not applying. Instead, your son will probably be fine at your state university where being NMS should cause tuition to drop to nearly nothing.</p>
<p>There are thousands of colleges and most people who go to a top 30 USNWR school could have gotten a full ride to a lower tier school. You should not pressure your son to go to a school just because it costs less. If money is the only reason for your son to go to OU he may not be as happy as he should be in college. While I disagree that a student will feel that a school is a "fit" from one visit, I do put a big emphasis on the other students at the college. A school like MIT or UChicago will have very academically motivated students from all over the country. OU may not have as many academically motivated students, except for those who life in Oklahoma and want to take advantage of their instate tuition. I personally (not sure about your son) do not want to go to a state school (aside from my own) without atlest 15% of studetns from OOS because I feel it hurts diversity. </p>
<p>The honors college at OU may provide education of similar quality to Michigan and Chicago (the two schools you said your son is interested in) but for engineering Michigan is miles ahead, for economics Chicago is miles ahead, for business Michigan is miles ahead, and same can be said for other subjects. OU is not a bad college, but if your son can get partial scholarships at some "better" colleges he may want to take them instead. Do not throw away the OU offer, but do not force your son to if he does not want to.</p>
<p>Re NMFs being chosen on the basis of a 2 hour test--they also have to have the SATs, GPAs, and recommendations to back up the results of the test.</p>
<p>And the student who misses it by 2 points has other chances to prove his/her worth and win scholarships--via SATs, GPAs, ECs, and recommendations. </p>
<p>University of Cincinnati is another school that has gone avidly after NMFs, with the result of more than doubling the number over last year, to 38.</p>
<p>I had the same decision and OU was my in-state university. I chose the more expensive private school because for my subject the gap in performance was enormous. I suggest you compare departmental prestige/rankings between your prospective unis and see if they are close. For some subjects, like econ, picking OU over Chicago would be ridiculous. However, if it were for petroleum engineering, OU's pretty much top notch. I also didn't fit the campus mentality, so make sure to visit. I still think it's funny because up here people think I'm a nutcase sooner fan when at places like OU and the greater Sooner Nation I'm a lightweight:P</p>
<p>A lot of bright Texas kids are heading north to OU because of the difficulty of getting into UTexas, and, especially into the business school. OU is offering these kids some nice bucks.
To me it would be a matter of "like-minded peers". That is a key part of "fit".</p>
<p>I agree with all the economic arguments above, but I also agree with all the "fit" arguments above. One thing to consider is that if you have a high GPA/NMF kid, they could not only get a great scholarship somewhere NAMED "national merit scholarship", they could get a great scholarship to a different school BECAUSE they are NMF.</p>
<p>In other words, some schools like OU or Tulsa or ASU offer these "automatic" NMF scholarships, but others have full or partial tuition scholarships that a NMF is highly likely to get. While it's nice to have the security of an automatic award, if you find a place that is a better fit and where you have a really good shot at the money that might be where you should focus your efforts.</p>
<p>For the record, we threw away OU and Tulsa (actually D threw them away - I am a nervous tightwad), but looked at ASU. She wound up at Pitt with full tuition and an engineering scholarship.</p>
<p>Interesting factoid. The lady who wrote "Reading Lolita in Tehran" went to OU. She graduated before going back to Tehran and living through the revolution and is now a professor at Johns Hopkins.</p>
<p>Thanks for mentioning the requirements to go from National Merit Semi to Finalist musicmom. I think that's important to remember.</p>
<p>We are from Michigan, hence Michigan is high on the list. But as you might imagine, the competition for merit money is pretty intense as it is not your average state school. Of course, there's always Michigan State, but the truth is, except for the ADS scholarship which is a seperate test unto itself, they're pretty stingy with merit money.</p>
<p>I would never force son to go anywhere, but I would force him to visit.</p>
That's a bit over-optimistic if we're talking second tier full-rides. In fact there are very few full rides available for anybody at any of the 50-100 ranked LAC's or Uni's and almost uniformly those kids getting the generally available (not specially limited to geography or race or other) full rides have HYP stats and EC's. At most of these schools you'll need to be well over the 75th percentile of many Top 30 USNWR schools in all stats to get one of their few full rides. </p>
<p>(There are or were some schools who based things toatlly by formula, last year the College of New Jersey was one of the better schools offering full rides, but it was not listed as a National School. It took monster stats like top 2% and over 1500 , may have been 1550. That's not an average top 30 USNWR kid. I believe that scholarship might be diluted or discontinued by TCNJ . ) </p>
<p>For an example, Tulsa a lower tier two USNWR school has zero full rides for Non -NMFs. It doesn't matter if you are a 35 ACT VAL you are out of luck , I checked last year. ;) Full rides in the second tier are as rare as hen's teeth. Now 3rd or 4th tier? Maybe they are a little easier to come by, I didn't search many of them. </p>
<p>Other examples, my D a 35 ACT Val was admitted to Yale and was not given one of the few full rides at Millsaps, or Hendrix- both well thought of but clearly second tier LAC's. An average kid from a top 30 wouldn't even be considered for an invite to the Hendrix Hays Award or the Brown at Southwestern or the Quattlebaum at Presbyterian or the Oglethorpe at Oglethorpe (all LAC's usually ranked USNWR bottom of second , top of third). </p>
<p>So, to suggest otherwise may give some parents false hope. </p>
<p>Now for one of the very few generally available Top Tier (Top 50) Full Rides? You better WOW (walk on water). ;)</p>
<p>Maybe saying that most students from top 30 schools could get full rides was too strong. I have seen kids from my schooll get into top schools like Cornell and also get full rides to our state school (UMD). Maybe I should have said students at top 10 schools should be eligible for good scholarships to many other schools that may be better than OU. I just wanted to emphasize that just because OU gives full rides to NMS finalists does not mean that it is the only school that will give the OP's S money. </p>
<p>Also, it may be harder to get full rides or good scholarships to lower tier LACs than state universities (especially in state schools). State schools have more money to award in scholarhips than private LACs. The OP's son should get good deals at Michigan State and Western Michigan and possibly some merit money from Univeristy of Michigan (IMO Michigan in state tuition is worth more than free OU). Schools like Tulane also give a lot of merit aid (but not that many full rides) to attract top candidates. </p>
<p>I agree though that to get a full ride to top schools (esp Chicago and Duke) is so competitive that the people who win the scholarships are god like. I do know someone who got a full ride to Duke, except he became a Rhodes Scholar so it is not the best school to look for merit money for an average kid. </p>
<p>I heard somewhere that CMU matches all scholarship offers so maybe the OP wants to look into that to see if they wil give the same money OU is giving (assuming the kid wants to go and gets in).</p>
<p>Venkater, your first post was valuable and your second post clarifying it made it more valuable. The points you make are valid ones. I agree that some state schools are among the most generous.</p>
<p>Alabama, Arkansas, Clemson, South Carolina are four of my favorites who are very generous. OTOH Texas, Texas A+M, Texas Tech, William and Mary, and U of Mississippi are all very , very difficult in scholarships. </p>
<p>It's the same with LAC's . No real rhyme or reason to who gives big merit awards.</p>
<p>DS is going to go ahead and apply to Michigan State (Lyman Birggs) even though, on the face of it, they don't seem to offer much merit money. We talked to a parent whose non-NMS, 34 ACT kid got a big offer from MSU. It would seem DS (35 ACT, 2300 SAT, 3.95 gpa) would get a decent deal if that was the case. Of course, there is still a slim hope that DS can garner some merit money from Michigan.</p>
<p>SBDad....congrats on your hardworking son. He will have fun in April choosing from many great offers.</p>
<p>My son and others with similiar stats last year were offered good money from many of the top 50 non ivies. One guy was offered $20,000 OOS at UMich.</p>
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It's a time to fall in love with a subject and have the peace and calm for study and reflection. It's also a time to wake up to ideas you might never have considered. Great teachers are everywhere. Great teachers are what it's all about.
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A great thought and I agree with it about 90% ... and for some students the cohort group is also very improtant ... a very motivated student will get a great experience anywhee ... some kids may do better being the big fish in a smaller (academic) pond ... other kids may do better being thrown in the deep end with a higher density of kids who will challenge them academically. To me it's all about fit and the individual child and what environment is most likely to allow them to really kick in their intellectually curosity while in college.</p>