Can someone explain the mail?

Parents Forum
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<p>The "we" usage is an extremely common slip--for parents it feels very natural to say (though I'm sure unintended) as we feel so involved in our child's college application process. </p>

<p>However there is actually a good reason to avoid the "we" word besides irritating your kids--it also irritates the heck out of colleges. I've heard that after they get the millionth phone call from a Mom to ask a question about "our" application or scheduling "our" interview" they are about ready to scream. So I've always tried to remember when calling admissions offices to use the correct parlance.</p>

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<p>jpar- no one gets to receive S's PSAT scores :) so we just get the nice letters for sending the SATs.......</p>

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<p>I have a gender-neutral first name. When I was in high school (in the pre-coeducation 60s) I got stuff like you describe from all the all-male military academies and all-male colleges. Later, in grad school, I got a couple of mailings inviting me to be a sperm donor! Clearly, I did not have the anatomy to be accepted for any of these things.</p>

<p>Consider these mailings to be advertising for the colleges. Some of them may provide some useful information, but don't get starry-eyed about whether your child can get accepted or would want to attend any of them.</p>

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<p>Pokey, in defense of the OP... back when my son was bombarded with all that mail, some of the mail came addressed "To the Parents of ....." I remember specifically getting letters like that from Macalester, including one explaining why it was worth spending a lot of tuition $$ for a kid's education. There probably was more than one college - but I didn't pay all that close attention. </p>

<p>But the point is, when it comes to being deluged with college mail, "we" may really mean "we". Also, oddly enough, both my undergrad college and law school rediscovered me the same year, and all of the sudden I was receiving alumni mail and magazines after being ignored for the previous 20 years. And the undergrad alumni mag. was just full of articles about what a wonderful place the college had now become - featuring lots of articles about current students, their majors, and new facilities on campus. </p>

<p>So yes - <em>we</em> did get lots of mail. My son got some, I got some, some came addressed to both of us.</p>

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<p>WOW - This IS the best place in the world to find guidance counselors! Everyone has such good advice and this has been so helpful at such a confusing time. Since me and my husband did not go to college, this is so new (I did attend community college and earned a two-year degree in 5 years, that was about 20 years ago). </p>

<p>I agree with so much of what you said, especially the "we" discussion. Me and my husband both work 2 jobs to send our boys (we have 2) to a private school across town. "We" came to that decision when we realized the main goal in my neighborhood is to learn English as a second language, and to graduate from high school. (Not to sweat it,a there are FOUR alternate schools available in our area. My nieces and nephews attend) Not having your children get shot in a drive-by BEFORE they finish high school is an accomplishment. I always joke with my boys, because I call them when they are almost home from school. I ask, "how far from home are you." If they say, "we're here where the drug dealers work," - then i know they are only 3 blocks away. The average HIGH SAT score in our district is 850. </p>

<p>As for the info sessions, no one from my sons school received any so far (that he knows of). I did not see any familiar faces at the sessions. There is only 30 kids in his junior class. </p>

<p>As for throwing the mail away. NO. I think I will keep it all, just for me. I actually framed the one from Yale and lit Holy candles around it for three days (Just kidding). I personally grew up in a time when anyone of color we not "invited" anywhere. I explain that to my kids and they just laugh about it being not true. ( I am very GRATEFUL for that). Invitations remind me that the world IS a better place as far as education. From reading the CC, it seems almost EVERYONE has a fair shot at somewhere.</p>

<p>Actually, a state college ( Like Texas Tech -"we" were invited into the home of an alumnus to meet the deans), would be cheaper for the private school tuiton we pay for now. Maybe "we" can work a little less then!!! </p>

<p>As for grades- my son has a 4.0 in Honors classes, plays football, works 20 hours a week, volunteers at the equestrian center for disabled children (when our car is running - LOL).</p>

<p>But our biggest prayer is that of all the girls that call the house all the time of day (he has his own phone), one of those girls take over some of the decision process!! </p>

<p>Once again, thank you for so much Good advice, and good luck with your own children. Right now, I have to go BACK TO WORK!!!</p>

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<p>Nothing wrong with advertising, if that's how you take them -- and at this point that's all they are. Some (many?) of the letters are waaay over the top and make it sound like a full scholarship to HYSP is just the cost of a stamp away LOL. Like everybody, my Sophomore S got a bunch of these mailings, but in his case one in particular just caught his eye for some reason. He sent back the postcard, visited the website, and I would say that right now it's one of his top choices -- and he probably wouldn't have even thought about this school if the school hadn't sent something. So is it junk mail? Yeah, but junk mail works sometimes works.</p>

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<p>It seems that every time another set of standardized test results come out we get another avalanche of these letters. Fortunately, we understood what they meant (nothing). Unfortunately, a schoolmate and her parents are convinced that these mean she's a viable candidate for these schools and aren't prepared for the potential (probable) fallout. After the first round (sophomore year practice PSAT) of these, we threw away most and kept a few. Now after rounds 3 and 4 we keep even fewer. All those poor dead trees. It's worse than all these garbage catalogs we get in the mail.</p>

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<p>The mail means a) Please apply b) You won't be laughed at for applying but unless you fit all our criteria and (if we're extra-selective) are lucky you won't be accepted.</p>

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<p>Survivormom,
Your S is really lucky to have parents so involved with his education and so willing to sacrifice to send him out of his neighborhood to a good private school.</p>

<p>Did you know that the fact that neither you nor your husband graduated from a 4-year college will actually help your son get into one? Being a first generation college student is a big tip factor. Particularly the top colleges are trying to attract students like this.</p>

<p>Curious about what kind of people of color you and your S are. </p>

<p>We are black. I am glad to share what I know about admissions for underrepresented minorities (blacks, Hispanic, Native Americans are considered URMs.)</p>

<p>What exactly was your S's PSAT score? I also have a 2003 table by the college board that breaks down SAT scores by race. I have not seen them post this on line again, and I don't think it's on their site any more. In addition to the scholarships for students of all races who are at the top 3-5 % on the junior year PSAT, there also are scholarships for black and Hispanic students who scored high on that test. The black and Hispanic students don't need to be in the top 3-5% of all students nationwide to qualify for those race-based scholarships.</p>

<p>The cutoff is roughly an index score of 190 for black students, an index score of 180 for Hispanic ones.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom comes through again. We should have an emoticon like they do in the San Francisco Chronicle entertainment section - a man standing on his chair and clapping.</p>

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<p>SurvivorMom, For once people who deserve a break actually get one! Your son will be much sought after by colleges -- smart plus minority plus first generation to attend college plus football plus character. I'm sure he will find that many colleges are interested in him.</p>

<p>When you have a chance let us know what kinds of colleges appeal to him-- for example, large/small, urban/suburban/rural, serious sports/casual sports, liberal/less so (or maybe all of the above). Also what parts of the country are you looking at.</p>

<p>Many, many colleges actively recruit kids like your son. In many cases, the school will pay for transportation and lodging so that he can visit and get to know what the school is like.</p>

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<p>Hi - Yes I agree with Alumother. Northstarmom needs her own personal website. She would probably run a personal business and make lots of $$$$$ because there seems to be so many of us in the same boat. (by the way, Northstarmom just got nominated on another thread for Writing Award!!!). </p>

<p>In reploy to Northstar, we are Hispanic. My son has experienced the best of both worlds. We live in a world of "homeboys" and graffiti. He travels across town to a world of Lexus and BMW. He is treated with respect in BOTH worlds. (It's a Christian school). He has friends in both worlds (he tutors the kids in the neighborhood and the football team at his school). </p>

<p>The score he received on his PSAT is 167. The letters he has received state " Congratulations as being named one of the high scoring students in the 2005 PSAT". </p>

<p>I always said I would NOT use race as a factor in college until my husband got cancer and depleted any and all of our College fund.
The remission numbers they give my husband is 3 years. So we are trying to beat the odds. Hopefully we have both of our sons in college somewhere, ANYWHERE, before we have to battle cancer again. At this point, at least we have been invited to "ENTER THE SWEEPSTAKES."</p>

<p>Our motto is "BRING IT ON!!" </p>

<p>My son is looking at engineering or pre-med.</p>

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<p>"I always said I would NOT use race as a factor in college until my husband got cancer and depleted any and all of our College fund."</p>

<p>I am truly sorry to hear about your family's misfortune.</p>

<p>In case you have any misplaced guilt about the fact that being Hispanic may serve as a tip factor for your son when it comes to college, please remember that he is excluded from some things that are helping other students get in.</p>

<p>These include legacy tips and probably also include applicants who stand out due to musical or athletic talent honed through expensive summer camps, lessons, etc. For example, being a skilled bassoonist, french horn player or violist can help applicants get into colleges, but obtaining such instruments and lessons from excellent teachers is virtually impossible for low income applicants.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, your family probably is hurt by prejudice each day even when you aren't aware of it.</p>

<p>From a Jan., 2005 Washington Post article: "In another study by psychologist Robert W. Livingston at the University of Wisconsin, Poehlman says, volunteers were given details of a crime in which a Milwaukee woman had been assaulted, suffered a concussion and required several stitches. In this case, Poehlman says, some volunteers were told the perpetrator had been proven to be David Edmonds from Canada. Others were told the guilty perpetrator was Juan Luis Martinez from Mexico. Volunteers were asked what length of sentence was appropriate for the crime: Bias scores against Hispanics on the implicit tests tended to predict a longer sentence for the Mexican."</p>

<p>The same article cited research about "black" and "white" sounding names on resumes. I imagine that similar results would exist for Hispanic sounding names.</p>

<p>"
In perhaps the most dramatic real-world correlate of the bias tests, economists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of Chicago recently sent out 5,000 r</p>

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<p>Survivor Mom - you should not feel in any way ashamed or embarrassed for your son to use your family's ethnicity in admissions. Your son is exactly the type of kid that affirmative action is meant for: a kid growing up in a depressed, urban neighborhood who shows a committment to helping others in his own community. If anyone is "cheating" it would be some hispanic-surnamed kid raised in a rich suburban enclave who doesn't even have any close family members who speak Spanish. (And I don't even mean for that comment to start a debate - just pointing out that those are the kids that others are more likely to resent).</p>

<p>Keep in mind that the search for diversity is also to benefit the college and other students at the campus: so that kids who do come from affluent backgrounds can get to know kids who have grown up in the kind of neighborhoods where you live. </p>

<p>Because you are new to the college application game, I would revise my comments about the mail somewhat. Keep in mind that the brochures are ads, but don't throw away the mail -- it is a good way for your son to begin to think about colleges and start to get an idea of what might appeal to him. Also, keep an eye out for colleges that mention or offer any sort of special scholarship eligibility. Also, don't assume that the "race" factor will automatically get your son into the top colleges -- he still needs to also look at colleges with a range of selectivity, especially since finances will be a factor. Also, many colleges are now able to attract a very diverse body of applicants, many of whom have very impressive grades and accomplishments, so he will still have plenty of competition. </p>

<p>My sincerest condolences for your husband's illness. This is a very trying time for your whole family, and I am sure that it is especially stressful for your sons.</p>

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<p>Survivor mom, you and your husband sound like wonderful parents, and your kid sounds like he would be a contributing member of the community to any college lucky enough to get him.</p>

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<p>I am a junior (almost senior!) and I find the mail from selective colleges very misleading. I got a 215 PSAT sophomore year and a 221 junior year, so I was bombarded with mail from Yale, MIT, WUSTL, Northwestern, etc. I initially assumed it meant I had a good chance at those schools. I know better after almost a year on CC, though a lot of selective schools are still on my list (and my fingers are crossed!:)).
I just think there is little reason for places like Yale and MIT to send mail to every high scorer. Virtually all top students have heard of these schools, and they are in no need of more applications. I think it gives kids false hopes about their chances. To a 16-year-old, statements like "you would be a great match for Yale University" are very misleading and encourage unrealstic optimism. I don't think the practice is necessarily wrong, just highly misleading.</p>

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<p>emswim, I think you are right -- and I think colleges like Yale do it to (a) keep their applicant pool high, so their admit rate stays low, which in turn helps boost their rankings and perceived prestige, and (b) bring in more money from application fees. Have you ever noticed that the most prestigious colleges also have the highest fees to apply? Do the math - multiply the application fee by total number of applicants, and you'll see the incentive for these mailings. </p>

<p>I do feel it is misleading and unnecessary. I can see why schools like Reed and Macalester sent lots of mail to my son -- they are excellent schools with strong academics, but my son might not even have known they existed otherwise. But obviously we all know about Harvard and Yale and Princeton without receiving extra mail from them. I do think that for many kids it is a waste of a fee to apply, but the mailings reinforce a false hope that would not otherwise exist.</p>

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<p>more marketing mail to prospective students= more applications = higher yield.</p>

<p>They're all playing the Yield Game because people mistakenly buy into the idea that the harder a college is to get into, the better it is. It's a funny game......everyone applies becaue the rate of admission is so low. The rate of admission is so low BECAUSE everyone applies. </p>

<p>Chicken and Egg.</p>