With respect to rankings as they relate to strength in economics, UNC places 77th nationally when measured by faculty publishing.
(“US Economics Departments,” IDEAS. Data is not normalized for institution/department size.)
The School of Public Health is ranked #2 along with Harvard. The undergraduate business school is ranked #7 (USNWR) with finance being #9 and management #5. The biochemistry/biology program is ranked #36 world-wide. It’s somewhere in the top 20 nationally. There is no perfect school, but if you are looking for a very strong school with rigorous academics, research, internships, school spirit, a great college town, a beautiful campus, diversity, professors who care about their students, and balance/collaboration, then UNC meets that criteria. Do other schools also meet that criteria? Absolutely.
The IDEAS ranking was intended neither as a positive nor a negative. It was simply an additional source for those who are interested in the economics program at UNC. The ranking has a scholarly premise and. as far as the base data allows, rigorous methodology.
I would not “just keep it simple and consistent” by using sources I might not agree with, particularly when the comparisons made using those sources are often heterogeneous in nature (graduate department rankings used as indicators of undergraduate quality, etc.)
@Todd87 What I’m saying is that not every school has a B-school. UNC ranked 7th seems pretty good, but does not consider all schools. I used Duke as an example.
As for Wake Forest: WFU has a much more rigorous and overall better educational experience than UNC (I can’t speak for UMich). However, UNC has better research facilities than WFU. WFU is similar to Dartmouth in that respect, though. Great undergraduate education. Very similar to a LAC.
@twogirls “Many of the undergraduate classes are small ( under 30). The classes are taught by professors. TAs are only used at the recitations.”
That is NOT always true. There are vary many 100- and 200-level small undergraduate classes taught by grad students at UNC. They are called Teaching Fellows.
I believe what you are saying, but that has not been my kids experience.
I found out why my daughter has experienced something a little different in her classes. It turns out that Phd candidates can teach some of the small non-science classes. Only professors can teach the science classes. My daughter is a double major/minor in the sciences and has therefore had professors. She actually had one phd candidate in a small English class -just found out- sorry about that!
I didn’t realize that this was still going so I’ll throw some more numbers at you guys. I’ll stick with the IU/UNC comparison for reasons mentioned earlier and then throw Michigan into the mix.
Here’s UNC’s program rankings: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/indiana-university-bloomington-151351/overall-rankings
Here’s IU’s program rankings: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/indiana-university-bloomington-151351/overall-rankings
The only undergraduate programs ranked are business. IU’s program is ranked 10th, UNC 7th. They have comparable business programs and IU has a much stronger accounting program, which given salary trends is the best business focus to study. At the graduate level their MBA programs are 18th (UNC) and 21 (IU). Pretty much a draw.
While UNC does rank ahead of IU in many graduate programs, in most cases the differences are negligible (#6 vs #12). UNC clearly has a better public health program, one of the tops in the nation, but in regards to policy this is offset by IU’s School of Public Affairs which is peer ranked with Harvard’s Kennedy School and Princeton’s Woodrow Wilson school. Both schools are top 5 in analytical chemistry, tied in law school, toss-up in education, earth sciences, economics, math, biological sciences, etc. IU also has a top 5 nuclear physics program.
As mentioned earlier the medical school rankings for research are both in the 20-40 range, which is negligible again considering both are indicators of a very strong medical schools, but not at the premier level of a Johns Hopkins for example.
And no Todd, CS+Math+Physics =/= an engineering program. Engineering = an engineering program. I realize there are subsets, but neither school has an actual engineering program.
Now here’s Michigan’s rankings, a public school that UNC considers itself to be in the same tier as: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-michigan-ann-arbor-170976/overall-rankings
They’re pretty much top 10-15 across the board in every program.
I never said that UNC was a bad school. In fact I said that it was an incredibly strong public school. But my point of this thread was to have someone explain to me why UNC is considered to be on par with Michigan when if you break down the programs themselves, the caliber of the university is really more like IU’s. So is it due to just reputation and acceptance rate? UNC’s instate tuition is $2000 less than IU’s, so I’m going to pass on the validity of the value argument. Or do I have this backwards and IU should be ranked much higher as a university?
Here’s UCLA’s and UC-Berkley’s rankings as well:
Both top 10-15 across the board as well.
@collegeqsm one reason the rankings for UNC and UI look the same in your post is… your link for UNC actually takes you to the rankings for IU. The actual global rankings for UNC can be found here:
Alright; it’s story time from old Uncle Phonyreal.
Back in the day, I used to date a Duke girl from New England (hey…if Brice Johnson can date a Duke girl, then why can’t I?!) who had many of the biases you might associate with that part of the country…and I remember how she asked me several times why I chose UNC over Wake Forest given that Wake Forest was a private school and was higher ranked (by what…2-3 spots?). I told her that I felt like, given that I was an independent and highly motivated person, that UNC was the better place for me and that I would have more opportunities to network, do research, etc. And every time I told her this, she rolled her eyes, seemingly in disbelief that little ol’ public North Carolina could be better than a school like Wake Forest. After we’d been dating for about 4-5 months, I brought her back to Winston-Salem (where I grew up) to spend a weekend with my parents and me. As we got into town, we drove by Wake’s medical campus and then we drove around Wake Forest itself. Her response: “THAT’S IT???” :)) :)) :))
@collegeqsm I’ll preface this by saying “you get out of college what you put into it”. A kid can be just as successful with a degree at IU as any Ivy or “public Ivy”. Colleges don’t make the successful student; rather, the colleges manage to select the students that make the college look good when the students enter the real world.
The reason UNC gets lumped into the same category as UMich, UVA and Cal rather than IU has more to do with the students they manage to attract than rankings from US News or any other source. It’s something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. This data comes from 2014-2015 common data sets as it was the most recent available for each school:
Percent in top 10% of their high school class
UI - 34%
UNC-CH 78%
UVA 89%
UMich [Not Reported]
Cal 98%
Middle 50 ACT Composite Ranges:
IU Bloomington 24-30
UNC-CH 27-32
UVA 29-34
UMich 29-33
Cal 28-33
Middle 50 SAT CR Ranges:
IU Bloomington 520-630
UNC-CH 600-690
UVA 620-720
UMich 620-720
Cal 600-730
Middle 50 SAT Math Ranges:
IU Bloomington 540-660
UNC-CH 610-710
UVA 630-740
UMich 660-760
Cal 630-760
Again, a student can go just as far with a degree from IU than any other school.
First: for most people if your state has a good public flagship(s) you should go to that school and save the money. That applies to Michigan, NC, Virginia, and University of California systems. As far as UNC goes the weather is much better than michigan during the academic year, and the kids seem happy at UNC. In terms of metrics, UNC is a bit lower than UVA and UM on incoming kids strictly because those schools take many more OOS kids for the tuition $$$, whereas UNC is mandated not to exceed 18% OOS. And yes self motivated kids will do well at all those schools. My impression is that UNC is more enjoyable precisely because a lot of in state kids are not quite as competitive and when classes are graded on a curve classes where 98% of the class are in the top 10% (Cal) are very brutal. Especially introductory weeder classes common in the UC system (of which I know) and probably all the other Universities too.
@Todd87 the OP started the thread by asking how UNC was any different from IU.
If I were an Indiana resident, I’d probably be hard pressed to pass up in-state tuition at IU for OOS tuition at UNC or another state’s flagship.
The opportunities are endless. My kid is currently interviewing for two internships, meeting with somebody about research, and was recommended for a special research program. I can’t say enough about this school. That does not mean that other schools do not have these opportunities (they do), but our state school does not ( or these opportunities are not easy available).
Our daughter really wants to go to UNC and got in EA OOS. As much as I also like the school, I also wonder why it has such a draw when you really look at the numbers. In state admission, while still an accomplishment, isn’t nearly as selective as many of the top tier schools. The combination of solid academics and great sports (basketball) in a beautiful, fun college town seems to be the draw. But I’m struggling with the wisdom of paying $47,000 a year vs a fraction of that in Athens for the UGA honors program. And I’ll admit that the prestige of a school does/can make a difference. As a Wake Forest grad, I’ve experienced it myself. Tough call. Hate that it has come down to cost for so many of us. It wasn’t always that way.
My daughter graduated #1 from HS and we are OOS- an airplane ride away. She is doing very well academically, feels challenged and says her classmates are very smart. Her roommate is from NC and graduated #3 and was a NMF. Her roommate also feels challenged academically and between the two of them there have been plenty of venting sessions regarding school work. She wanted ( and found) a school that has very strong academics without an enormous amount of competitiveness. She has found balance and has met a lot of interesting people from all over the country.
She came home for spring break yesterday and said she did not want to come home. She loved HS and was very involved, but HS was stressful given the highly competitive climate. She is now happier than she has ever been in her life. The school bleeds spirit ( she wanted that), the academics are top notch, she is getting opportunities that are beyond her wildest dreams, she has developed personal relationships with her professors, and she has an active social life that does not involve alcohol ( not a drinker). That is her definition of UNC.
I have not seen UGA but have been told that it is quite nice, and being in honors certainly does make it a tough call.
“I also wonder why it is such a draw when you really look at the numbers” (#41)
For whatever reason, this has been my experience with the perception of UNC as well. Of course admission standards aren’t everything – and UNC is a top 100 school in any event (technically top 95) – but I’ve noticed that UNC’s graduates (and fans) tend to under-regard some of the scores of colleges that are even more competitive.
It depends what you are looking for. Some are not looking for a super competitive environment. My daughter considers it challenging enough without making her totally crazy- she had enough of that in HS. She is doing very well and has had lots of opportunities. I have a family member who graduated from UNC 2 years ago- also OOS ( graduated #2 with a 35 ACT) and he found his major extremely challenging academically. He turned down Cornell and Vanderbilt and never looked back. By October of senior year he had a great job offer and he remains happily employed.
@jgc123 "struggling with the wisdom of paying $47,000 a year "
no school is worth going >200,000$ in debt for versus any other reasonable school… that includes harvard… So if I understand you correctly you should not even think about it.