<p>you know how we always hear those stories about how just being valedictorian with a 4.0 gpa isn't good enough to get into a really good school?</p>
<p>for example, the duke rep who came to my school said that 10% of the ppl who get rejected from duke are valedictorians at their high school.</p>
<p>does anyone know people like this, with perfect or near-perfect grades and test scores who didn't get into any highly selective schools and ended up somewhere that wasn't anywhere near their top choices?</p>
<p>also on the other hand, anyone know people who did have perfect grades and test scores, and moderate extracurriculars (nothing outstanding or extraordinary, maybe even below average) that got into some top schools?</p>
<p>The Valedectorian from our local high school did not get into Harvard (and I think possibly one or two other HYPS but I remember Harvard because everyone was so shocked she did not make it) which was her life long dream. She was was the state AP scholar, NMF, perfect grades - appeared to have it all. She did end up being accepted to some good places - John Hopkins, Duke.</p>
<p>I'd imagine that this also depends a lot on the school that you go to, the top half, if not all, of a very competitive private school that sends all of their kids to college, and a ton to very selective colleges my very well be more informed and better prepared for college then their valedictorian counterpart at a rural high school that sends only about half of it's kids to college, period.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Its not that Valedictorians have higher chances
[/quote]
Yes, they do, due to their class rank (#1). The two are, without a shadow of a doubt, directly related.</p>
<p>That said, I seriously doubt there are any vals that don't end up at either a top school or at a state school (or equivalent) with full scholarships (or most tuition paid scholarships).</p>
<p>haha, the current valedictorian in our class (I'm a junior this year) has known that she will go to the University of Washington since she started Kindergarten b/c her parents refuse to pay for a private school. so she hasn't taken any sat II's or anything. UW is probably the only school she'll apply to.</p>
<p>of course she's aiming for a full-ride.</p>
<p>i only started this thread b/c i see ppl with perfect or near-perfect stats get rejected from top schools every year and it really freaks me out. it just makes me feel that if that happened to me..that if after everything i did these past four years trying to get into a really good school (studying like crazy for ap tests and sats, balancing school with extracurriculars, etc.). i ended up at an in-state, fairly unremarkable school because i didn't get in anywhere else, i think i'd just die.</p>
<p>Some schools have 20 vals. And these are usually not the schools that send 20 kids to Harvard. These may even be shools that do not sent 20 kids to top universities. So their vals get rejected.
Also, the rules on who becoms a val can be very weird.</p>
<p>^thats my school right there. The results are probably skewed because of that (although we did send a bunch to stanford and one to harvard last year)</p>
<p>Many schools have more than one valedictorian, usually determined by overall GPA and honors/AP courses taken. For example, my high school class had approximately 8 vals, only two of which made "really, really good schools"</p>
<p>Class rank is completely varient. You could have a stupid class or a brillant class. The year before me in high school is pretty much not that strong. No one will get admitted to a high ivy.</p>
<p>However, my class is truly brillant. If I was in either the next year or the one before me, I would have a great chance at being valendictorian. However, my class had 2 people in calc. freshman year (which is crazy especially how my school operates) and tons of other truly genius people. We have about three kids in my class that I will be completley shocked if they don't make it into a HYMS. They all have legacy, perfect grades, and perfect SAT scores actually.</p>
<p>I have to agree with high schools doing weird things. My son's school gives everyone with over 100 average the rank of #1. Due to the high grade weights this year there are around 125 seniors ranked #1. The val speech is a tryout and the person with the best speech wins. There is also the scenario of the high-ranking student who got high grades in easier classes or played the "weighting game" very well.</p>
<p>Dsultemeier:
Wow - 125 kids with #1 rank is really cheating! Does the school tell colleges how many #1s they have? And what o they do about top 10% - is it everyone else including drop-outs?</p>
<p>I always thought schools here in Texas should intentionally thwart the "top 10%" rule by ranking the way my H.S. did-you got 4.0 for any grade in the As (a 91 was worth the same as a 99), 3.0 for any grade in the Bs. We had 16 valedictorians....all with a 4.0....they drew from a hat to give the speech.</p>
<p>My son has a high A average and is in the top 19th percent of his class. If they ranked everyone with an A average at the top of the class, about 50% of them would be "tied" at the top 10%. Who would UT and A&M admit then?</p>
<p>citymom: The Secondary School Report of the Common Application includes the following: "Class rank:___ Class size:___ Covering a period from<strong><em>to</em></strong>. The rank is <em>weighted unweighted. How many students share this rank?</em>___"</p>
<p>The valedictorian is very often not the smartest or best in the class. Just perhaps the most driven. I've known a few valedictorians that aren't very smart, whereas kids farther down in the class are brilliant. </p>
<p>I agree most vals will get into a great school, if not HYP.</p>
<p>^^^geez, so a 99 puts you below #125? Talk about grade inflation...</p>
<p>Farralicious, you won't die and you won't have wasted your hard work either. Even if you go to state, I'm sure you will be very happy once there and have a perfectly great life. The hard work you put into the last four years also means you've developed an incredible work ethic and likely got a huge amount out of those years in terms of what you learned. That will never be wasted: you'll be much more prepared for university and subsequent work. You may get to be the big fish in the pond with stellar university grades and thus tons of opportunities for grad or professional school after undergrad. Undergrad doesn't matter. In our circles, where everyone is a PhD and a prof at various top universities around the country, NONE OF US cares where their kids go to undergrad because we know it doesn't matter (other than being a nice fit for our kids' major). That tells you something.</p>
<p>Val at my school last year applied to MIT, Cal Tech, and I think Yale and possibly Stanford. With great standardized test scores and incredible EC's in his desired field of study, he ended up going to our state school (University of Colorado). Ironically, he isn't even in the honors college because he replied to their offer to late.</p>
<p>Some years ago, I recall hearing that Duke found that a lot of its students had a similar profile (that included valedictorian status) and made a conscious effort to cast a wider net. That resulted in more valedictorian rejections.</p>
<p>As a practical matter, at many schools valedictorians are not the most interesting candidates. Attaining a perfect or near-perfect GPA may require avoiding some challenging classes, not being engaged in outside activities that cut into school time, etc. At schools with unweighted grades, valedictorians are sometimes those who take no AP or honors classes at all.</p>
<p>Some valedictorians, of course, ARE really standout students with amazing test scores and portfolios of non-academic activities. That combination should give them decent odds of being accepted just about anywhere.</p>