<p>emag, does your daughter have occasion to come into casual contact with successful adults (for example, at church or at a country club)? I would encourage her to start talking about colleges to every adult she encounters, to get them talking about their educational experiences. I think she will find that there are many paths to success.</p>
<p>"In our circles, where everyone is a PhD and a prof at various top universities around the country, NONE OF US cares where their kids go to undergrad because we know it doesn't matter (other than being a nice fit for our kids' major)."</p>
<p>Interesting. I have a doctorate and have been a prof (though not at a top university, though I have a degree from an Ivy), and have some prof friends who think that their kids' undergrad institution is very important, so want their kids to go to one of the country's top universities, and some who think that it's fine if their very smart kid go to a tier 2 college or a college at the bottom of tier 1 that gives great merit aid.</p>
<p>Missypie, they never told me that the grades would count towards my gpa. The students from my class view the val as a cheater (which is true), and many say that they think my jr. high grades should be exempt or weighted, but I thought maybe colleges would not care that much if I was #2 instead of #1. Although- top schools have never heard of my school, so why would they take a kid from a "no-name" if he wasn't the top gpa?</p>
<p>The valedictorians that I've gone to school with have gone to/ will go to:</p>
<p>Class of 05: Rutgers
Class of 06: Columbia University
Class of 07: Rutgers
Class of 08: MIT</p>
<p>I think the two Rutgers students ended up there not because they didn't have the test scores or ECs to back up their rank, but because of monetary reasons.</p>
<p>Chicagoboy12, there probably isn't anything you can do to help yourself...with all the problems in the schools these days, they probably don't care a bit whether you're 1 or 2 (you're a success, and they probably have a lot of kids who could never be labeled as such)....but it would be great if you could pay it forward....ask the junior high counselor to make sure the kids know that the scores count in their high school GPA, etc.</p>
<p>" Although- top schools have never heard of my school, so why would they take a kid from a "no-name" if he wasn't the top gpa?"</p>
<p>It's a tip factor at places like Harvard if you come from a high school that has never sent anyone to Harvard.</p>
<p>The top rated colleges also consider more than gpa in assessing students. ECs, strength of one's courseload (including whether one started taking high school classes while in middle school) all are important as are other factors such as one's parents' education, income level, etc.</p>
<p>The top colleges also look at how gpa is calculated by schools, and the colleges recalculate gpas based on their standards. So, someone who is valedictorian with a light course load in a school that counts AP classes the same as they count regular classes wouldn't be as attractive to top colleges as would a lower ranked person who has loaded up on APs, but is lower ranked.</p>
<p>It's also a good idea to ask the GC to include an explanatory note if the school doesn't rank based on weights, and if high school courses taken in middle school are factored into one's gpa.</p>
<p>Don't worry my son with the C's will definitely be outranked by the kids with the A's in AP classes. He just sees the 100 GPA and thinks that is great. Under our school's ranking calculation system the kids who come out lower in the rankings despite higher grades are generally the ones in performing arts (band, orchestra, choir, theater) or sports because those classes aren't counted for rank but they take up room in their schedule so that the student can't take another AP class. But our ranking system is really just for the Texas Top 10% thing. In my opinion the Texas legislature should come up with a uniform system of calculating the top 10% so that each school or school district isn't doing it differently. The calculation debates have taken up way too much time at our PTA and School Board meetings. My older child goes to a private school and they switched to not ranking this year and they only give 5 extra points on grades for pre-AP and AP classes. The counselors said they will report the rank if it will help the student, i.e. with the top 10% rule. The private school system is much easier to understand and seems a lot more fair.</p>
<p>At our (Texas) public high school, athletics, cheer, marching band and drill team are all double blocked, unweighted classes....so if you're in one, that makes 2 of your 8 classes with an unweighted grade. Choir and theatre are also "regular" (unweighted) classes. Sadly, those at the very top of the class tend to give up their sport (or band, etc.) junior and senior years so they can take two more AP classes to boost their GPA.</p>
<p>" everything i did these past four years trying to get into a really good school (studying like crazy for ap tests and sats, balancing school with extracurriculars, etc.). "</p>
<p>How common is this? I mean, since coming to CC, I realize SOME kids are like this, but I don't think I know any. Does anyone know if most kids do what they do because they get something more direct out of it?</p>
<p>I go to one of those crappy inner city schools and my school determines the valedictorian by who had the highest weighted GPA through 10-12 grade. So taking easy classes will not make you number 1.</p>
<p>" everything i did these past four years trying to get into a really good school (studying like crazy for ap tests and sats, balancing school with extracurriculars, etc.). "</p>
<p>How common is this?'</p>
<p>Very common on CC. Not very common in the real world, including the real world of students who get into top colleges. People who grit their teeth and do ECs to try to impress others aren't likely to be as creative and successful in those activities as are people who pursue their own interests.</p>
<p>^^^Well that's a relief (especially since I think you know what your talking about.) Sometimes I wonder which world is "real".</p>
<p>In the case of my school, the valedictorian is determined by having the highest weighted GPA. As a result, many students scramble to take the most AP classes, rather than actually taking classes in which they are sincerely interested most of the time. In the end, the valedictorian at my school often ends up being the person who secretly took classes over the summer so that he or she could skip the required classes at school to enter more AP's earlier. In the end, I would have to say that the valedictorian is not necessarily the most bright person. Where I go to school, specifically, the individual is the person with the most upper level classes. Often times, the difference between number 1 and 3 in rank could be just 1 extra AP class out of all four years of high school.</p>
<p>Variance in both the overall quality of the school and the way class ranks are determined means that being 'valedictorian' doesn't specifically mean that someone has achieved some universally accepted pre-determined level of academic qualification. Yes, of course, the valedictorian is certainly smart but the valedictorian at one school could easily be ranked 15th or lower at another school. Of course colleges know this too, so it's not a free ticket to admission by any means. Although, off course, it doesn't hurt.</p>
<p>There was always some grumbling at my high school regarding the way class rank was calculated. In short, you got 'bonus points' on your GPA for each AP or Honors course you took; however, the way the school's music programs were structured meant that you had to reserve some places in the daily schedule for music if you wanted to participate in the music program. Therefore, you couldn't use that space to take an additional Honors course thus making it, in most years, mathematically impossible for someone with perfect grades, who also studied music, to be the valedictorian or salutatorian. Because of this, I would agree with the above poster and saying that the valedictorian was often not the best qualified student overall... often just the one that wanted it so bad they'd drop other courses and activities (that would make one better rounded) just to get a few more bonus points. I think they have since changed the arrangements a bit.</p>
<p>All this talk of valedictorians brings back memories of the whole Blair Hornstine saga from a few years ago.</p>
<p>Basically, she claimed to have some mysterious condition that prevented her from ever taking gym class thus getting a special exemption from the requirement and also to have much of her schooling done at home. She then used these special accommodations to allow her to take extra courses that the other 'normal' students coudn't. Anyway, in the end she had a slightly higher GPA (because, of the special provisions, she could take extra courses) and to be fair the principal decided to have co-valedictorians that year. Well this wasn't good enough for Blair... how dare she have to share the spotlight with anyone. Thus, out come the Hornstine family lawyers to sue the school district for her to be the sole valedictorian. Oh, and of course they couldn't resist also suing for 2.7 million in 'damages.' Not surprisingly there was a backlash from the whole community since, after-all, the only way she was able to get a higher GPA was by getting questionable exemptions from courses that everyone else had to take. </p>
<p>It gets even better... she ended up not even attending her graduation ceremony since the community was furious and would have likely booed her off the stage. In the meantime, some of the local papers began looking into the whole thing and found that not only was Blair Hornstine a crybaby but a fraud too. Turns out she had been publishing a lot of writings in a local paper and that those writings were plagiarized to a significant extent... sometimes whole passages were lifted word for word. Hornstine had been admitted to Harvard for that fall, but when they got word of all this mess they rescinded her admission and essentially told her to get lost. Don't really ever know what happened to her, but if you Google her name you're in for some interesting reading. Her greed came back to bite her big time! Now she is famous, but not in a good way.</p>
<p>Of our valedictorians who applied early this year (one to Stanford, two to Yale, three to MIT) all of them were deferred. I was 9th (technically 2nd) when I applied ED to Penn, EA to Chicago and was accepted at both (I added my Chicago acceptance for those who think ED Penn is not comparable to EA Stanford/Yale/MIT). Rank clearly isn't everything.</p>
<p>I am confident that all of our valedictorians, salutorians, top-ranked kids will get into great schools. But will they all get into their top choice? Maybe not. Nor were they entitled to, just for being valedictorian. When they do get into those top 5 schools, it will be because of their talents in piano, violin, science, math, and writing (just to name a few of their great qualities!)- not just because they were ranked highly.</p>
<p>Two of our valedictorians this year applied early to a HYPSM school. I was accepted at Yale; the other person was deferred from MIT. Both of us have solid test scores and activities. At this level of competition, you just never know.</p>
<p>We knew a val with outstanding credentials all around who didn't get accepted to any of his top schools and was very disappointed. He got accepted only to his safety. He enrolled at his safety school and LOVED it there...just loved it. He is a graduate with a fine job doing exactly what he always wanted to do.</p>
<p>Is it to one's disadvantage for a school to have only unweighted grades?</p>
<p>This is the thing that I am worried about. My school does not weight at all. My rank barely makes the top 10%, but I've taken the most rigorous classes plus extra. A vast majority of students ranked ahead of me are only taking regular classes and meaningless electives such as Physical Education multiple times. Will colleges understand my situation?</p>
<p>Will colleges understand my situation?</p>
<p>Of selective schools, I think some will (e.g., holistic LACs), some won't (e.g., Ivies). If you have good test scores and took generally the most rigorous courses offered, you should gain appropriate admittance to good schools.</p>