Can we talk about AP Art classes?

<p>Beginning studio art courses are fairly standardized across the country. They tend to be drawing heavy with specific exercises and requirements to try out different media. Most art teachers are generalists and perfectly able to judge work in a variety of media and styles. I will say, that the experience of taking AP Art, doing a bunch of works with a unifying theme, and putting together a portfolio was one of my most valuable high school experiences, and I use many of those skills regularly in my life to this day. (I am a full time architect and part time artist.)</p>

<p>I believe the grading for AP Art is similar to that of the other APs - that is high school teachers who teach the course grade them over the summer.</p>

<p>There is an IB music exam, but it is not performance based. It is music theory,history, score analysis and the like - 3.5 hours worth.</p>

<p>In an interesting coincidence, there was an article today that a local HS student had won a “young composers” competition; his work will be performed by a professional orchestra.</p>

<p>I can understand where such honors would look better on a college app than any AP grade, if the student wanted to go into composing or even music performance. But it gets him nowhere towards admission to schools that admit based on class rank.</p>

<p>In our school, AP art is only available in senior year, after students have taken a specific sequence of studio classes in drawing/ painting or photography. So it won’t help with anyone’s GPA when applying to college.</p>

<p>AP Music theory can be taken at any time, although it is recommended that one have a strong background or take music theory (non-AP) first.</p>

<p>If one is going to major in art or music in college, the skills one learns in these classes may be helpful, but the credits will not be accepted.</p>

<p>D who will be a studio art major opted out of AP art as a senior. D who just graduated as a music major only took music theory as a senior (non-AP.) Before enrolling in classes as a freshman, she was required to take a placement test. She did well and was able to place out of Music theory 1. So that did free up a few credits, even though she did not take the AP class.</p>

<p>In general, people who are gaming the system to get the highest GPA will opt out of music and art classes and only take the one required class for graduation. No classes in music or art are weighted (other than the AP level classes) since they are not offered on an honors level.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That’s the difference in our schools. Our kids trying for every GPA point opt out of music and dance, but they can take 3 weighted AP art classes (plus AP Art History, plus 2 weighted pre-AP art classes.) Which brings me back to my original post - some kids who drop music or dance don’t think it’s fair that an “art kid” can continue to pursue his passion while racking up GPA points.</p>

<p>I’m wondering how many schools outside of Texas admit solely by rank?
Both my kids were admitted to all the schools they applied to, without weighting.
Even our state schools consider more than GPA & test scores.</p>

<p>Missypie, I think the real mystery is why the pre-AP art classes are weighted. They certainly aren’t in our school - and there are a lot of prerequisites for AP art, making it probably a net loss or at least neutral. I agree with you that doesn’t seem fair - though I think given the work of AP Studio art, it’s not unreasonable for it to be weighted.</p>

<p>Our school allows students to take music classes at a regular or honors level. There are additional requirements for students taking music classes at an honors level. I believe that art and theater classes are also offered at both a regular and honors level.</p>

<p>At my D’s HS, the students are limited to 2 APs in Junior year, and 3 in Senior year, unless they get 'permission of the principal." One girl (who was a top student and took other AP classes in math and science) wanted to take regular Music Theory as a Junior, but only AP Music Theory was offered that year. She got a waiver to take the AP Music Theory, and had 3 APs, where as everyone else only took 2 APs, since that was all that was offered. Her Mom knew how to work the system. </p>

<p>The little extra weight for the AP Music Theory class made her Valedictorian, since her GPA was .001 points higher than #2 kid with only 2APs that year. The val knew that the only reason she was val was due to the AP Music Theory class. </p>

<p>In the grand scheme of life, it doesn’t matter, but some schools offer very nice scholarships simply because you are the val.</p>

<p>^ FWIW, that sounds more like a scheduling conflict than her mother “working the system.”</p>

<p>It wouldn’t make sense for their to be AP Dance classes because that is closer to a sport than an academic subject. What’s next? AP soccer? AP flag football? Art is sort of on the line between extracurricular and academic and doesn’t really fit with the other APs anyway, but maybe band/choir/orchestra aren’t offered as AP because of how group oriented they are? Art is generally an individual pursuit, but music classes are focused around a group of kids performing together. How would you assign an objective 1-5 grade for each student in a musical performance? Food for thought.</p>

<p>Also, I go to school in Texas and even though we rank based on weighted GPA, most in the top 8% have taken a number of unweighted classes every year, such as sports, music, electives. ect. I just don’t see much of an advantage to AP art vs 4 years of football, in the rankings anyway.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This is not my district, but some districts are attempting to address the issue:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>[Highland</a> Park ISD considers new GPA policy for next school year | Dallas-Fort Worth Education News - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News](<a href=“http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20120516-highland-park-isd-considers-new-gpa-policy-for-next-school-year.ece]Highland”>http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20120516-highland-park-isd-considers-new-gpa-policy-for-next-school-year.ece)</p>

<p>A bunch of parents parsing the relative importance of a class or two, and the value of .001 on a high school GPA … This has got to be one of the saddest, most obsessively silly CC threads ever. </p>

<p>I will now prepare myself for the flames to come…</p>

<p>Isn’t this really a political decision since the Supreme Cr will be hearing Grutter vs Bollinger and Community Schools vs Seattle School district, whose outcome will affect the 10% top of class/school gets into state schools in Texas. Taken even further, I would imagine this was a state legislative decision and if somebody wants it changed you should start with the Texas legistlature - vote in new people.</p>

<p>Then, rank won’t matter so much.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I started this thread by saying that some *students *have problem when the “art kids” emerge at the top of the class. I’ve really never heard a parent express an opinion about the issue. And I’ve never heard a kid outside of the top 10% express an opinion about the issue. It’s the feelng of some top students who are competing against each other for every .01 GPA point.</p>

<p>Since I’ve been as parent of HS kids, I’ve never met a HS val or sal or even top 20 or 30 student who didn’t get there on purpose. The school is too competitive, there too many APs offered to just fall into a top spot without 4 years of planning. Even if the top 10% was no longer important, there would be kids driven to try to be the Val or Sal. I’ve even known kids at private schools that “don’t rank” who know their class rank. The other students know, too.</p>

<p>Weren’t some of you like that in HS? At my school, there was no weighting for honors classes, you only knew your class rank your senior year when you sent your transcript to colleges, there were no gradation honors except for the val and even that was just giving the speech…yet for some reason that was solely within me, not parent driven in the least, I wanted to get every point possible in every class. I was the geek who did the extra credit when I had a 100 in the class. I can’t imagine that some other parents on CC weren’t like that. (My own kids certainly aren’t, however!)</p>

<p>My point is that at our HS, it’s the very top, very hard working, crazed, compulsive, terrifically bright kids to whom the perceived inequity is important. They may look back on high school and wonder why they dropped marching band to take AP Chem, but at the time it’s extremely important to them.</p>

<p>What bothers me is when students or parents are looking so closely at what OTHER kids are doing, what classes they are taking, what extracurricular activities they are are involved in, and feeling that that in any way relates to their own lives and opportunities.</p>

<p>Got three of my own, all of whom have made/are making choices that did/will bump them out of contention for val/sal/top x percent of their classes. For them, it was music, band in particular, in all of its glorious, wonderful, nonweighted essence. S2, for example, COULD have dropped his two instruments, along with sypmphonic band (a class), jazz band, marching band, jazz quartet, a rock band, three years of all-state band (one as first chair and featured solist), a couple of national awards in jazz improv, and two private lessons a week (all extracurriculars). He COULD have replaced band (the class) with another, weighted class and/or APclasses. But why? And more to the point, why should anyone other than S2 himself care about that choice? Did some kids in his class load up on easy AP’s? How in the world would I know or care? Goodness knows my kids don’t care about the classes anyone else took. So he graduated in the top 5% in the class instead of … whatever another few honor points would have gotten him. I can’t see what possible difference that made in his college prospects, and I can’t see how that will affect his life.</p>

<p>missypie - At my D’s school many of the “very top” kids are in band. In fact one of D’s drum major compatriots is headed off the Harvard and another to Berkeley - doesn’t seem to have hurt them . . .</p>

<p>The supreme court already heard the Seattle school district case five years ago, it was about using race to assign students to schools.</p>

<p>Washington state can’t use race to admit students, but they can use economic indicators and now many universities ask for essays etc., to give a broader picture of applicant than just test scores and Gpa.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>My guess it that now they just look up the applicant’s address on Google Earth…that alone gives then pretty good economic indicators.</p>

<p>The Supreme Court is going to hear a case about how the University of Texas uses affirmative action to further specify the 10% it admits. It still is the same argument about the need for such competitiveness in the schools where one has to be concerned about the classes offered and ranking. It is a political decision.</p>

<p>Most top musicians that go to the top universities are at a level of play beyond the average high school orchestra or state school orchestra, in my experience. Of course there are exceptions - they excel in something else that gets them admitted to the top school, and they also are average musicians. </p>

<p>Eascoastcrazy, just because you don’t care about something doesn’t mean EVERYONE has to think just like you. That would make the world extremely boring.</p>

<p>I think we would all be a lot happier if we paid less attention to what classes other people’s kids are taking. The world could use a whole lot more of that kind of “boring”, IMHO.</p>