Can you be wrong in Philosophy?

Student Lounge College Life
41

<p>And before mr. brand posts them, here are my stats:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=182695%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=182695&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I had something like a 3.9 after my first year in college, retook the SAT, and got into Georgetown (rejected at Rice and Yale). After earning a 3.7+ at Georgetown, I applied to Rice, Chicago, and Brown; I was accepted at the first two and rejected at the latter. </p>

<p>I try to help others get into good schools via transferring; with that essay I just posted, I gave two laundry lists of corrections. That is just one example. I am willing to give many more.</p>

<p>I know I sound pretentious, but that's just me, nothing personal. I must confess that I was somewhat offended by the "definitions" of philosophy provided here: a lot of you use terms that are very philosophically loaded, which lends the impression that you are not well acquainted with the material and grading rubrics of professors. My approach was not meant as an insult: I've simply had much more experience than anyone in this thread has had in philosophy, and I believe that makes me more qualified to judge what it is that will get an A paper, for instance. In fact, I'm starting a tutoring program here so I can help other (bright Georgetown) students do well in philosophy. It's a difficult discipline even for the most intelligent, and I often wonder whether I have the mental strength to handle it. My Ph.D decisions will probably tell me that I don't, but perhaps an acceptance in a top 14 law school will indicate that I have some aptitude for what philosophers think is an inferior "discipline."</p>

42

<p>
[quote]
I seem to recall a private message saying that all the comments you received were subpar, and not as helpful

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Subpar - as in the people trying to help weren't helpful. Your comments, on the other hand, were for the most part helpful and utilized.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Sorry, I use the Oxford American Dictionary, and according to it, the word does not exist.</p>

<p>Perhaps you mean... 'substantive.' That's a good boy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As someone intent on going to law school, I'd suggest you use more references. Do a simple search on the internet or try another dictionary: you'll find that it is in fact a word. I'm not going to debate the English language with you as it is laughable.</p>

43

<p>
[quote]
Brand, I've told you this many times before: debating me here is pointless. Your insults cannot offend me simply because I cannot be offended by people I don't respect, and I simply don't respect intellectual inferiors. I'm not sure how I "destroyed" myself, given that this is an internet forum. You are taking this far too seriously. In the end, I am at a top school, with an outstanding GPA, decent LSAT, and am probably heading to a decent law school. Do I care what you think? Why should I? Does the opinion of a dumb community college student matter to me? No. Now if you were actually someone important or someone, whose opinion I value greatly, I would be seriously offended.</p>

<p>Seriously I have nothing to lose here. The fact that you have gone through such great lengths to defend yourself and compensate for my attacks against your intellectual vanity demonstrates only your intellectual insecurity. You can win an internet debate. Here, I declare you the winner. Did you really win, though? You're still stuck at a community college as a second-year student. After my second year, I got into Rice and the University of Chicago, the latter of which is probably the highest ranked school at which you have a chance. What do you get by comparing yourself to me? I earned my GPA after my second year here at GTown and then got in to UChi and Rice, which is arguably quite hard

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This lengthy explanation of your superiority directed towards me follows your statement that you don’t care about my opinion?</p>

<p>
[quote]
And this is something with which I take issue: why are you not also criticizing brand?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You are arrogant about your intelligence. I will concur that I am not as intelligent as you, but this should be expected as I am a sophomore at a CC and you are a senior(?) at Georgetown University. Given your obvious intellectual superiority, you should be able to win in an online discussion with me. So what’s the deal?</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am not going to apologize for posting your essay. I think it's awful.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You’ll recall: you also thought WindCloud’s essay was awful. Now he’s at Harvard and you’re at Georgetown. I know you’re proud of your improvement, but Georgetown is no Harvard. Don’t let it keep you up at night. By the way, I'd post your Chicago response but for some reason I deleted it after I read it. I guess I have more important things to do than save old essays from people I don't know. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Edit: and to put this silly debate over the word "substantiative" to rest, here:</p>

<p>
[quote]
<a href="http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/privacysymposium/notes.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/privacysymposium/notes.html&lt;/a>
A: Markets for information are complicated: subject of the contract itself but also the background of the transaction. How do you separate descriptive and substantiative information.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is taken from Stanford Law School's website. You could also, of course, open another dictionary as recommended. Give it a rest and be happy that you've learned a new word so you won't be lost if you go to Stanford. :)</p>

44

<p>
[quote]
you also thought WindCloud’s essay was awful.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, I didn't.</p>

<p>I thought for_shaganov's essay was not particularly astounding.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Now he’s at Harvard and you’re at Georgetown. I know you’re proud of your improvement, but Georgetown is no Harvard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This would be particularly hurtful if... I actually applied to Harvard.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I guess I have more important things to do than save old essays from people I don't know.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ummm... my e-mail archives everything. You do know how that happens, right? I didn't purposefully save it, so don't flatter yourself.</p>

<p>I'll post my Chicago essay if you want. It wasn't astounding because it wasn't meant to be. It was supposed to answer a question in a paragraph or two. I did get in, once again, so obviously it wasn't <em>that</em> awful.</p>

<p>I am not going to bother responding to the rest of your post. You win. Hardy har har. You're still a sophomore at a community college, I'm a junior/senior at a top school. Do I care what you have to say? No. I do wish you good luck with your applications, but it is a senseless waste of time trying to argue with inferiors.</p>

45

<p>
[quote]
I thought for_shaganov's essay was not particularly astounding.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh yeah. Well, whatever. They're both at Harvard now.</p>

<p>
[quote]
This would be particularly hurtful if... I actually applied to Harvard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well don't let it hurt you. This is, after all, just a game for me and should be for you as well. Don't take it to heart. </p>

<p>
[quote]
You win. Hardy har har.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Seriously nspeds, I'm just messing with you. But you actually should care about what I have to say. That attitude is exactly what so many people dislike about you: you think that you're inherently better than others because of the school you attend. Obviously, as has been demonstrated here, you are not always right (as with the word substantiative) and I am ignorant of things I have not studied (Philosophy). Strangely, you fail to realize that I will attend a school of similar (or better) prestige this fall. I wonder what you'll say then.</p>

<p>Anyways, thanks for the good luck. I'll let ya know how it goes.</p>

46

<p>nspeds I was checking out your stats, and you mention that you attended HBU, correct me if I'm wrong but was it Houston Baptist University?</p>

47

<p>Why did Philosophy begin in the first place and why were humans engaged to this field? Please a helpful link or explanation would be greatly appreciated!</p>

48

<p>
[quote]
That attitude is exactly what so many people dislike about you: you think that you're inherently better than others because of the school you attend.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't care why some people on an internet forum dislike me. Whether I think I'm better than anyone else has nothing to do with the school I attend, your stating that I believe so makes me believe even more that I am intellectually superior to those who "dislike me." You are all so quick to apply a label or try to rationalize your dislike that your intellectual flaws become so apparent at the same time. The fact that you were so quick to apply foolishly a logical fallacy to my claim attests to what I'm talking about.</p>

<p>By the way, none of my logic preparation covered the informal fallacies; I did all the work on my own. Georgetown was not involved, so don't even try to cover up your lethargy with the fact that you haven't had any coursework. I haven't had any coursework in informal fallacies either. Go to the bloody library, check out a book, and learn what they are. These aren't just tools you use to criticize others, they are tools that are intrinsically valuable in life, though it wouldn't surprise me that you should learn them solely for the former.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Strangely, you fail to realize that I will attend a school of similar (or better) prestige this fall.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wow, you are strangely confident about this process. You might think this advice applies to me, but it actually applies more to you: the acceptance letter doesn't make you intelligent. Why I think I am more intelligent than others has nothing to do with my attending a better school (though it is indicative). I seriously thought the same way when I was a mere freshman.</p>

<p>And what's even more important is that I don't care what inferiors think about me. Oh, ah, people on college confidential dislike me! You need to stop taking this stuff so seriously. </p>

<p>Also, I find it surprising that you should be so confident, given that McGill wasn't even willing to accept you without seeing your HS transcript. You are not the sure-admit you thought you were; and even if you were, what does it matter if you end up attending a school "better" than the one I am attending? I still got into a school that is ranked higher than or the same as any school at which you have a chance.</p>

<p>Recall also that I got into Georgetown after my freshman year. You are a junior transfer.</p>

<p>
[quote]
speds I was checking out your stats, and you mention that you attended HBU, correct me if I'm wrong but was it Houston Baptist University?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, why?</p>

49

<p>Initially my sister went there, then she transferred to Stanford. For instance acronyms like BU can mean many things: Baylor, Boston, Brown...you get my point. Why did you leave? Was it the major and minor thing? Or was it the location. I know Southwest Houston wasn't the best and I agree the campus seems scattered. By the way what are some of the negative qualities of Philosophy? :)</p>

50

<p>
[quote]
Why did Philosophy begin in the first place and why were humans engaged to this field? Please a helpful link or explanation would be greatly appreciated!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't know this. You might try consulting texts on the history of ancient philosophy.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Initially my sister went there, then she transferred to Stanford.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Holy crap! Really?! The best I heard from that school was a transfer to Rice and Vanderbilt, but I never heard about Stanford. Congrats to her.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Why did you leave? Was it the major and minor thing? Or was it the location.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>1) The school doesn't have a philosophy major.
2) Law school placement.
3) The material simply wasn't challenging.
4) My professors were basically forcing me to go to a better school.
5) I wanted a more intellectual environment.
6) Access to scholars and materials.
7) Research money.</p>

<p>
[quote]
. By the way what are some of the negative qualities of Philosophy?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>1) The professors are almost always awkward, which can hinder one's attempt to understand material.
2) The professors sometimes think they are as smart as you are, which can be frustrating. My professor started to lecture us on general relativity, and I had no idea what was happening.
3) The material can be exacting: readings are difficult, and it will often take two to three reads of a given text in order to have even a smattering of what is happening.
4) Writing: professors know that beginning majors love to write, so they put harsh page limits (one professor had four four page papers due during the semester. It was torture). These limits force the students to make proper goals for the paper and they train the student to write concisely, effienctly, and clearly.
5) Writing: Once students are trained to be more efficient writers and ace those small papers, the upper-level courses demand that you write 20-30 page papers. In the early days, these weren't so difficult because you were verbose and could easily fill in 20-30 pages. Now you are efficient and economical: you use words sparingly, and you are extremely clear, but that paper that would have been 25 pages in your early days is now... 15 pages. You are stuck wondering how to fill in 25 pages! For some perspective: I wrote a 60 page paper during my freshman year; last semester, I was assigned two 20-30 page papers, and both were 19 pages long. I couldn't even get passed the 20-page marker.</p>

51

<p>I don't think so, except for logic.</p>

52

<p>Oh, so you are a Philosophy major. Who knew? Well thanks for your detailed answer but I'm not sure of whether the question my Professor assigned was along the lines of a self-opinionated response or a matter of justice, truth...uhhhh I really don't know, my professor is really unclear about this and he rarely responds to his e-mail so I doubt I can get much of any help. I'm surprised that HBU does not have a Philosphy program. I too thought about applying to HBU but their emphasis on religion/theology really kept me from applying. Also I was not fond of the whole mandatory minor thing as well.</p>

53

<p>Philosophy has no negative qualities, it is probably the most beautiful study there is. But sadly, this only refers to philosophy it its truest* sense: philosophy as Plato or Aristotle** thought of it. Philosophy to them was not merely an all-encompassing study; it was a way of life.
Today philosophy is not even an all-encompassing study; we have taken different branches of philosophy and now study them under the completely different headings of :Political Science, Physics, Mathematics, Economics, etc., etc., etc.
Few topics that were originally included in the study of philosophy are exclusive to philosophy today and these too are waning; much of metaphysics is being classified as physics, much of the philosophy of mind is being classified as psychology, etc. etc.</p>

<p>In spite of all this, philosophy as it is today is still the most interesting field of study to me. Though, for a better understanding of philosophy, I believe you need to have a deep understanding of at least one other field. Maybe studying mathematics will give you some insight into why Plato thought it was the only real study in the world or studying biology may give you many of the answers Aristotle craved for.
Essentially it is whatever you fancy, pick another subject and dive in. Study it rigorously along with your study of philosophy and notice how you start seeing it differently.</p>

<p>Also, on the practical side of it (if you're big on practicality), you won't get much out of this study in material form.</p>

<p>*I do not really have any justification for using the word "truest"; the word "original" is probably a better fit, but I use the word "truest" to convey my sentiments towards it.</p>

<p>**The view of philosophy held by the ancient Greeks (which includes Plato and Aristotle) was not completely abandoned till the modern era, but it slowly disintegrated.</p>

54

<p>What is meant by: Philosophy as a systematic human activity? Clarification anyone? </p>

<p>Also, from what I have read I know that Plato divided the world into two realms: Spiritual and Materialistic and that the latter is not bad but is simply not desired. So what was his purpose in this so called division?</p>

<p>I have three gigantic textbooks in front of me on Philosophy and none of them are serving any assistance to me at this point. They all seem to contradict each other. What is it?????</p>

55

<p>Your understanding of Plato isn't terribly accurate. I recommend you read Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy (no need to read the entire book, just the chapter on Plato; But reading the whole book is not a bad idea!); I feel that Russell's explanation was very good.</p>

<p>By the way, what are the tree gigantic textbooks you have in front of you?</p>

56

<p>About Philosophy - Robert Paul Wolff
Philosophy (The Power of Ideas) - Brooke Noel Moore
World Philosophies (An Historical Introduction) - David E. Cooper</p>

57

<p>Ok, I haven't read any of those books but I do know of them (the first two).</p>

<p>The Brooke Noel Moore book is supposed to be really good (one of the best introductions to philosophy).
The Wolff book generally gets mixed opinions, its a good book, but many people don't like it because the author includes his own opinions to a large extent.</p>

<p>For a good intro to phil., I would recommend:
Problems of Philosophy - by Bertrand Russell
What Does it All Mean - by Nagel</p>

58

<p>Thanks but I have become so preoccupied with my Philosophy exam, math exam, math quiz and pol. science exam that I am afraid that I have to make the best of what is in front of me. By the way, is there even a standard textbook that is utilized in Philosophy courses? The professors at my college direct students to use any Intro to Phil book, my Prof has written a book that we have to purchase and answer but its based on his own self assertions and readings.</p>

59

<p>
[quote]
These aren't just tools you use to criticize others, they are tools that are intrinsically valuable in life

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You've made a career out of using them for the former. Congratulations.</p>

<p>As for McGill, I was informed that it is standard procedure and HS transcripts are required of all applicants - it just isn't noted on their requirements page. I'll forward you that acceptance letter as well.</p>

<p>To be so smart, you're awful at getting the point. I don't care if I attend a school that is better than yours in the future. But I wonder how you will bring up the classic "you're at a CC, I'm at Georgetown" point then since, well, it won't be true. </p>

<p>nspeds, you bore me and are too stubborn for your own good. It must be nice to always be right, at least in your mind.</p>

60

<p>badman89 what was Aristotle's thought, I know its a broad question but if you can give be the basics then that would be greatly appreciated.</p>