<p>I met an aerospace engineer who is now in his senior year. He had a 2.8 something overall GPA. Would an employer higher him?
I'm asking in case I did this...</p>
<p>Depends how much of his coursework you need him to know. He might be great if it’s a technical sales job. </p>
<p>What did he get an A in to go along with all of those Cs. If it happens to be right up your ally, it might be fine. </p>
<p>What is his competition? I never look at a resume in isolation only in the context of other resumes. </p>
<p>How hard is it to fire your hiring mistakes in your shop. If it’s a small company, it’s usually pretty easy. In a large company it’s pretty difficult. </p>
<p>@ClassicRockerDad Good points.</p>
<p>Son just received his degree in computer engineering, three weeks later he received a full time job offer in his field, this was his third interview, he had a 2.8 gpa. His employer was very impressed with his senior design project, so it’s not always about gpa.</p>
<p>Internship experience is also important. perhaps the student is not as good at the academics as he/she would be in a work environment.</p>
<p>Can you find employment with a GPA below 3.0? Yes, but it is harder than with a higher GPA.</p>
<p>I was (now retired) an engineering manager for one of the large aerospace companies. Our job postings would state a 3.0 minimum GPA but we would get so many college resumes that the first thing HR (before sending them to the engineering managers) would do was screen out all those below about a 3.2ish GPA. For summer internships it was around 3.5ish. </p>
<p>For the under 3.0 GPA grads, it would be best to stick to the smaller companies that don’t have a strict GPA screen. Search on Craig’s List, and the like, in addition to the usual Monster.com, etc. </p>
<p>Project work can also make a difference. But I would always be a little suspicious of a low GPA person working on a group senior project. I would wonder how much the other members of the group carried this person. Group verses an individual senior project is kind of catch 22 however. If you did an individual project, then I would wonder about the “works well with others” aspect. My son was a sub 3.0 student and did a group senior project as well as an individual project over the summer for one of his professors. It was the individual project and the report he did that he used to sell himself to get his first job.</p>
<p>I would also say that it is heavily dependent on the industry, geography, and the type of jobs you apply. Basically, the more “filters” one puts on what they want to do, the less likely you are to find A job. Don’t get me wrong, it would be pretty stupid for an electrical engineer to take a retail job at Banana Republic, however, the filter issue gets muddier when it’s between say taking a less desirable engineering job vs no job at all.</p>
<p>I know for a fact my filters are too tight without some magic bullet like a network contact. I only bothered applying to about 10 companies last year for internships and got no interviews; however, I had the luxury of being picky because I was already working at an engineering internship. This year I’m going for broke and will cast a wider net. If I had a 2.8 gpa, that net would include many jobs outside my major/interest and a lot more parts suppliers (companies that feed larger ones).</p>
<p>Basically it is a numbers game. If I have one job opening and get 100 people applying, I have to do something to make selecting the right person a manageable task. GPA is just an easy and justifiable filter. The smaller companies won’t get as many applicants and the person with a lower GPA will then have a better chance of having their resume read.</p>
<p>It was hard for my daughter’s best friend. But luckily the alumni connection did help her.</p>
<p>The trick will be getting the first interview. Once there you will have the opportunity to talk to your strengths. DS is a very strong student who attends a wonderful but lesser-known school. He says that at interviews he is able to talk through that and explain why his offbeat course sequence has prepared him well for the real world. </p>
<p>** Make sure your LinkedIn post lists all your skills.** Maybe even research some obscure/in demand ones that will help you get job leads. </p>
<p>I never even had anyone ask me what my GPA was, but this is going back a long time. I do see a lot of jobs posted that are entry level and even not entry level that require a 3.0 GPA or higher, typically those are companies you do not want to work for. </p>
<p>GPA is not a measure of one’s ability as an Engineer, it’s a measure of how well you take tests because at the end of the day that’s what your graded on, not ability or being able to adapt to real world problem solving. Keep in mind what you will be tested on in the real world cannot be derived from a Textbook.</p>
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I did. Came up in all my interviews, although in fairness I included it openly on my resume. Note that this depends a bit on the school - most programs trust that someone capable of graduating from MIT (for example) is academically adequate, but someone from a good-not-great school may need be able to rely on that kind of reputation.</p>
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What do you base this on? I ask because I work for such a company, and I have had a fantastic experience working for them. Exciting work (to me), travel, flexible arrangements, and fantastic educational opportunities. When companies get 10, 20, 100 resumes for every opening, and when there are dozens, even hundreds of openings every year, why is it unreasonable that a good company would start by saying “the good candidates lost by ignoring the X- GPA resumes are offset by the good candidates still available in the X+ resumes and the reduction in costs obtained by trimming the resume pile?” And what about that decision makes a company not worth working for?</p>
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GPA tests more than testing proficiency, it also tests things like diligence and attention to detail and an ability to handle a schedule. It isn’t the only thing that matters by any means, but it is something that companies pay attention to, and I see no reason why they should not - if it is an imperfect measure it is nonetheless a measure not easily replaced.</p>
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Your career must be quite different than my own. My work requires going frequently back to theory, and there are systems operating today for the simple reason that I derived something from a textbook, and I cannot believe that I am the only one to have done so. Remember that theory often predates application, sometimes by centuries. Don’t throw away your textbooks, you never know when you are going to need them!</p>
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Smaller companies also have different requirements in a candidate than larger companies - breadth over depth, for example, and the need for a “right fit” employee because of fewer opportunities for the moving them around. But a 2.8 is right on the edge of the danger zone for actually finding engineering employment, go much below that and you are more likely to find an “any college graduate will do” type of job than something you actually trained for.</p>
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<p>If your a new grad yes, but after a number years of experience doubtful if it will ever be asked. I had one potential employer ask me this during an interview, I declined the job more on that later.</p>
<p>Most if not all resume coaches and information you read about what to list and what not to list, tell you that GPA is not something you want to list on your resume after years of experience as would be the year you graduate, if your a fairly recent grad you wouldn’t know what that means yet. Linkedin is a good barometer of this.</p>
<p>School doesn’t matter, like I said I worked with MIT grads who blatantly lied in front of customers during round table introductions on background, education and experience among other things I won’t go into detail about. </p>
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<p>Why? Well it goes off of personal experience, companies that focus on GPA alone are not good companies to work for in my opinion because they are focusing on academic record vs. professional experience which is not a good measure of a candidates abilities. Just looking at available jobs on Indeed, I see a small number that list GPA minimums, very small % and the ones that do typically list “Entry Level” or “Recent Grad”. Seeing a company that is looking for 5+ or 10+ years of experience and a long laundry list of requirements, asking for GPA is irrelevant for someone who has vast experience and a solid CV and references.</p>
<p>I had one interview in the past 5 years, where the GPA thing was brought up, the company was not a “Great Company”, pay was way below market value, Hiring Manager was too much of a hard liner, not just on academics, but working culture. The list of things you could not do were bordering working in a prison. The working environment was nothing special, equipment was subpar, products and work I reviewed was full of mistakes, I noted plenty to the hiring manager and got lame excuses in response. </p>
<p>After doing research on the company and seeing they had abnormal amounts of turnover, places like Glassdoor make things on the other side of the fence easier, I knew it was not a great place to work after the interview. I got the offer, but declined, the Hiring Manager was pissed, sent me an e-mail telling me I am missing out on a good opportunity, since then I have seen (via Linkedin) five people in the role I would have had, Senior level job, most didn’t last 1 year if that.</p>
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<p>I do not agree, diligence, attention to detail and ability to handle work load can be backed-up with good references, listing projects and successful accomplishments you worked on and detailing them during the interview process and having great recommendations from former employers. I see people with high GPA scores, who went to prestigious Universities who cannot spell, have poor grammar and sentence structure, typically on resumes (I review plenty as a Senior Engineer) as well I look at Linkedin profiles of candidates and give my superiors my thoughts, since communication is key in Engineering, this is extremely important. </p>
<p>Communicating via e-mails or presentations that are given in front of high level execs and in front of customers is a requirement of my line of work and business. You may be able to solve a Calculus problem with ease, or ramble equations out accurately without referencing a book, but cannot properly convey your Root Cause Analysis in Powerpoint to the customer or to upper level management, a lot of Engineers do not realize that the are representing the image of the company which can make or break relationships, future work and peer respect.</p>
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<p>I kept a few of my textbooks, but in my line of work some of the information is dated, I typically consult professional level Engineering books and do not consider those Textbooks, there is nothing wrong with consulting a book, just don’t think that alone is key to success as an Engineer. Most people are instant experts thanks to the internet now as well, back in the day when I got started, you couldn’t “Google It”, and had to ask Senior level people or bring in Consultants. Now I see this more than ever, people who have no experience in something, finding out information on the net, then being empowered by their managers to design something or make something work without trusting experienced staff first or consulting those who have the knowledge and experience. This trend is disturbing and I seen it grow immensely over the years. </p>
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<p>Again, I do not see GPA in a lot of job listings, go look for yourself and post the % that do require it. I interviewed with all types of companies large and small and accepted and declined jobs from both, many had Stanford, Harvard and MIT grads as the Hiring Manager or part of the interview team. None ever asked my GPA or even brought it up. Again I am 20 years past graduation, it’s not an issue and it truly never was. GPA is important in the Academic world, going for your Masters with some schools a high GPA, say above 3.0+ but beyond that I have not had the same experience in the corporate world and I work/worked for huge well known companies in various industries. </p>
<p>Remember, the engineering gpa is going to be far more important than the overall.</p>
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That is what the OP was asking about, and the only thing I thought we were discussing. Anywhere you mention “experienced engineers” you are off the OP’s topic and onto something that I do not believe anyone else in this thread was discussing.</p>
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I wasn’t talking about integrity - the Ivy League graduates some of the finest liars in the world! Rather, I was talking about the confidence that someone who has graduated from a program can meet a certain level of knowledge. There are only a few schools where the fact of graduation means they almost certainly have that knowledge. There are many more where they might, or they might not.</p>
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I didn’t say “GPA alone” - I said that a lot of companies filter out low-GPA new grads early in the process, and I explained why. The actual hiring decision is based on a bunch of other things. Oh, and also note that even if you are hiring for a company you may not see this - many HR departments do this level of filtering before even sending resumes to the hiring managers.</p>
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For new hires, a lot of these things are hard to come by - good, relevant, knowledgeable references are hard to get as an undergrad, even if you have a couple of internships under your belt. And I still think it amusing that you think that a high GPA simply means that someone tests well.</p>
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GPA does not measure communication skills, I concur. I disagree that written communication is a primary skill for most new engineers. And as @ClassicRockerDad implied, there are lots of different positions for new engineers, all with different expectations. If you are going to be doing a lot of talking and relatively little math, then yes, communications skills will be more important than GPA. If you are going to be a design engineer then it might be years before you are in a position where such communications happen even once a month.</p>
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I consider the distinction minimal. Professional-level books and graduate-level textbooks are quite often one and the same.</p>
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Of course not, and no one suggested that.</p>
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<p>Some people test well others not so well, the end result is an effect on your GPA. Often getting high B’s or solid A’s on projects, reports and turning in your homework 100% in some subjects yet at the same semester have one or two subjects that are not going well and don’t ace your finals, your GPA is hit and hit hard, since so much weight is put on Final Exams. I do not look at high GPA scores at all, I totally overlook them when reviewing resumes and go straight to experience, to me intern work or working (in the industry or in some cases not) during school is a better measure of someone’s capability. </p>
<p>Even Google say’s GPA scores are useless:</p>
<p><a href=“How Google Hires People”>How Google Hires People;
<p>This quote is golden:</p>
<p>“Academic environments are artificial environments. People who succeed there are sort of finely trained, they’re conditioned to succeed in that environment,”</p>
<p>Some recent grads have no choice but to list it since they have nothing but their degree, school and intern work to market themselves with. I worked full-time at an Engineering Consulting Firm while in school, I was mentored by some highly skilled and educated Engineers, they gave me great letters of recommendation and that along with my head Prof giving me one as well, was able to land a job without even bringing up my GPA. My transcripts had it on, along with the number of times i was on the Dean’s list, nobody ever asked for it. I never really even gave it much thought at the time and I do not even know if any of my employers over the years checked my credentials, but having C, S and TS Clearance and strict background checks, that’s obvious and nothing on my CV is a lie or even Linkedin for that matter, but it’s been proven that a lot of people lie and it’s more rampant then ever in this day and age. Usually after 90 days, true ability is evident and the posers or CV fluffers are out the door. </p>
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<p>I was a “Design Engineer” straight out of school and still am to this day, though my title varies over the years and with different companies, DE, ME MDE and etc., I had to attend meetings and send reports to my superiors, got ton’s of e-mails to respond to (after the internet took off in the mid 90’s) and also had to meet with customers on new project launches. Most if not all new hires at my company that are greenhorns, are also handed this responsibility to learn the ropes quickly under Senior Staff.</p>
<p>Aerospace involves a lot of communication and regulations to be met, so clear concise communication with many departments, Certification, Thermal, Propulsion and Structural and so on, communication skills in this case are golden. Then when working with contractors, outside suppliers, or with customers Engineering staff often from another country, you have to be able to express yourself but yet walk on thin ice to not offend or say the wrong thing.</p>
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<p>Aside from the price, some of mine cost $300 and also fact they do not have example problems at the end of each chapter and a homework section. </p>
<p>Of course I would be lying if I didn’t claim to have several Schaum’s Outline series in my possession, for reference theory when needed.</p>
<p>I have a 4.0 with 91 credits from a top ten program in my major and have yet to get even an interview outside of the internship my friend got me (and my interview there was very informal). GPA isn’t everything.</p>
<p>Admittedly I need to apply to more companies, but it is a buyer’s market.</p>
<p>I found in my experience that if your GPA is higher than that, always put it as 3.8. Any higher and you will start to suffer from the anti-GPA bias.</p>
<p>I don’t think there is an “anti-GPA” bias. It is more about people being weird, unbalanced and having poor social skills. </p>
<p>Lets be real here. A kid with a 3.8 GPA in Engineering probably wouldn’t be a “normal” person according to my standards of “normality”. Most likely not a very well rounded individual.</p>