Can you help compare U of C to Swarthmore?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
1

<p>I visited Swarthmore with my D, a rising senior, but we've not had a chance to visit Chicago. It would be great to hear from people who have looked closely at both schools, particularly regarding the attitude of the students. While Swarthmore's campus and mission and academic offerings are incredibly impressive, we both left there feeling a slight unease about how seriously the students seemed to take everything, and how burdened they seemed to feel. Though I spent a lot of time watching students on the main quad on one of the first glorious spring days, I just didn't see a lot of joy there. Nor did we get that from one-on-one conversations with students. The burden of being a Swarthmore student was palpable.</p>

<p>My D gravitates towards the cozy LAC environment (e.g. Pomona, Davidson), but is open to the wider world of a research university, and has become quite intrigued by Chicago. She's very interested in politics, history, international relations; a PPE type of program would be perfect for her. She is a serious student, reads widely, writes well. She is also an athlete (could probably play one of her sports at Chicago or at most LACs), and extremely social. She values humor, is optimistic and light-hearted. Do you think she can find her bliss at Chicago? Is it different in attitude from Swarthmore? In what ways? Are we just plain wrong about Swarthmore? </p>

<p>We need advice to help her narrow her list, so thanks in advance!</p>

2

<p>Hi FauxNom, I’m an incoming sophomore at Swarthmore. I had to make an important decision between Swarthmore and the University of Chicago, my first-choice school for a long time. So I know a bit about UChicago, but not as much as someone who goes there. Both schools attract the intellectual types. I can say at once that UChicago has a core curriculum; Swarthmore does not. Instead, Swarthmore has distribution requirements. </p>

<p>Swarthmore students do take their work very seriously, but it’s not like they don’t have fun. And I would agree that a lot of students feel a burden, because they have a bunch of work, and they want to get good grades. And Swarthmore students are not the happiest bunch. It kind of depends on how students react to the stressful environment. There are some students who really don’t handle it well. They always seem to be in a bad mood, and they blame it on how much work they have. One of my friends, whose sister attends Haverford, visited and told me that Haverford students seem much happier. They have more free time to play and just relax. At Swarthmore, students generally wake up, go to class, then study and work, eat, and head back to the library. That, I think, is a typical day (Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday). </p>

<p>My friend made an interesting comment: “It’s a lot of work. I just think of it as a full-time job.” It does indeed feel a bit that way. Lunch is like a lunch break, and people leave by saying, “Well, I’ve got to get back to work.” Then everyone leaves and does their own thing.</p>

<p>On Thursday, there’s Pub Nite, so some people choose to work hard in the day and get drunk at night. There are also Parlor parties which is basically a bit of free food. On Friday there’s definitely less work going on, because there are no classes the next day. Same with Saturday. A bit more work on Sunday. That being said, most students choose to relax on Fridays and on the weekends. I would say that most students do little work on the weekends and choose to hang out and party. The library turns into a social place at night on weekdays. Around 10 pm everyone gets a bit talkative. </p>

<p>I think a lot of students truly do love it here, but they don’t show it. Students here generally do enjoy getting a lot of work, I think, and they get a sense that everyone on the campus also has a lot of work. It’s part of the Swarthmore experience. You can choose to take only easy classes, but that’s not really what people come to Swarthmore for. I think students are so focused on academics that they sometimes forget to loosen up a bit. But students do joke and laugh and play and party. I think you have to find a group of friends who are like that and hang out with them if you want to be light-hearted here.</p>

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<p>FauxNom, because you offered it as one of your choices, yes, you’re just plain wrong about Swarthmore. :slight_smile: My D is a rising senior (and I went there, too), and I’m pretty sure she’d find the idea that she and her peers feel

pretty laughable.</p>

<p>I try not to post a lot of identifying information about my D; I’ll send you a PM that may be more convincing.</p>

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<p>I can’t speak for Swarthmore because I never went there, but I attended U of C, and some of the opinions regarding Swat in this post seem to ring true of the U of C as well. From what I remember, Chicago is a great place, but it is also a gritty place. I would describe Chicago students as a bunch that are very intellectually curious, with a penchant for vigorous (and at times, fierce) debate, and many choose to learn merely for learning’s sake.</p>

<p>Having said that, I would NOT, in ANY way, characterize Chicago students as a “carefree, laidback” bunch. That’s not to say Chicago students are bland and morosely serious, but the best analogy I can make is this: At Chicago, academics and serious thought form the CORE of your life at the U of C. Everything else, parties, sports, movies, etc. are more at the periphery of students’ lives. At other colleges, quite bluntly, this is the reverse, or at least, the social life and academics have about a 50/50 split. </p>

<p>Put another way, having gone through grad school, the U of C undergrad experience reminds me more of an excellent graduate school experience, rather than a stereotypical undergrad experience. Think of Chicago: the College as a very social, happy, and cohesive grad school-like environment instead of a more serious college environment. That’s probably the best way to put it.</p>

<p>One quick edit: I think the long, hard, and cold winters tend to add quite a bit to Chicago’s “gritty” feel. Winters in New Haven or Princeton or Philadelphia are simply not as harsh, and I think this does affect the student atmosphere a little bit.</p>

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<p>A few observations:</p>

<ol>
<li> Two of my close friends at Chicago went to Swarthmore undergrad. (They are both graduate students). We have observed that Swarthmore and Chicago are different in presentation (liberal arts college or university, secluded campus or integrated neighborhood campus) and that Swarthmore is more hippie/crunchy granola/people with hair down to their waists than Chicago. Swarthmore also seems to be much more unified politically than Chicago’s. A stereotypical Chicago kid would be too snarky to embrace the Quaker feel of Swat.</li>
</ol>

<p>(sub-observation: Swarthmore is very wealthy and, unlike some schools I can think of <em>cough</em>HARVARD <em>cough</em> Swat actually seems to use its endowment and spend it lavishly on their students. Kudos to them).</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Either school requires a knowing “sacrifice.” That sacrifice goes something like: “I am going to spend less time frolicking half-naked in the sunshine and pouring beer down my throat than I might be if I went elsewhere. But will I will get in return is an experience that is very often challenging, sometimes to the point of frustration and tears, and an experience I can’t have otherwise. Plus, other people will be doing it with me!”</p></li>
<li><p>The attitude your daughter brings in with her is going to be the one she keeps for college. No school will turn optimism sour; optimism is a beautiful gift.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>I could not agree more about the Chicago winter. I have always maintained that all winter quarter courses should be pass/fail.</p>

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<p>idad - I agree completely. I think students should have the option to take one quarter pass/fail for each of their first two years in the College, and should be able to take a quarter with reduced classes for each of their final two years in the College. This would lead to a bit less pressure during the hard, cold winter quarter, since I’d assume most students would opt for the reduced load during the winter months. </p>

<p>One other point, I think the school should make more of a concerted effort to boost morale during the winter months. This means more winter concerts, more winter speakers, free hot chocolate nights, ice skating, smores nights, whatever… The difference between winter quarter and all the other quarters at Chicago is pretty significant.</p>

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<p>I guess tropical S deserves a lot more credit than I give him because not only did he survive his first winter in Chicago, he also took 4 classes and had his best grades of the year. Can’t comment on Swarthmore except that it was in his radar for quite a while and he thought it was too small. After he got in EA at Chicago he lost interest and didn’t apply (he actually lost interest in all other schools and we had to force him to send one more application before the Dec 31 deadline).</p>

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<p>I know both schools fairly well. It certainly isn’t a mistake to notice their similarities. Their differences are largely due to the factors others have noted – research university vs. LAC, comfy suburb vs. (pleasant, green) urban neighborhood, mild winters vs. harsh ones, Quaker vs. radical skepticism with a bunch of conservative students.</p>

<p>I don’t think of Swarthmore OR Chicago students as a cheerless, oppressed lot at all. My kids at Chicago have had plenty of fun. But lighthearted and carefree? Uh, no. Both colleges are full of people who are there because they really love learning and love intellectual challenge, and because they take seriously intellectual debate about the Big Questions in life. My daughter, returning several years ago after visiting friends at another fine university, said, “I don’t know how they can stand it there. They have to pretend that they don’t care about their classes, and if there’s a group of more than two people all anyone will talk about is TV.” Not that they don’t talk about TV at Chicago, but it DOES tend to have an intellectual cast to it, dissecting narrative structures and genre interplays. Similarly, the Swarthmore students I have met have not seemed particularly burdened by being “Swarthmore students” – if you want to see that, go to Harvard – but they take themselves seriously and want to figure out how to be good people in the world.</p>

<p>Some perfectly smart kids find atmospheres like that oppressive and pretentious; for others, it’s what helps them be most themselves. I think you have to go with your gut as to whether these schools are the right ones for you.</p>

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<p>I applied to both Swarthmore and the University of Chicago. I was waitlisted at Swat, but accepted and enrolled at Chicago. </p>

<p>From my perspective, Swarthmore has the same academically-intensive culture that Chicago does, but perhaps with a bent toward New England culture. Where the University of Chicago has traditional that allow it to stand apart from the Ivy Leagues, like its Core and its Quarter system, Swarthmore embraces traditional Northeastern trends such as abolishing core requirements, and, I believe, encouarging interdisciplinary majors.</p>

<p>I feel very comfortable comparing Swarthmore to a blending of Chicago and Amherst, perhaps leaning to the former in spirit and the latter in structure.</p>

<p>As a general judgment, I would say this: Your daughter will be happy at both Chicago and Swarthmore (or Amherst, for that manner). If she leans toward books, ideas and study, she should count Chicago, and also Reed, as her top two choices. If she insists on evenly blending academics with extracurriculars and athletics, Swarthmore may suit her best. </p>

<p>Most importantly, she should apply to all these colleges. One never knows who will accept or reject you.</p>

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<p>Thanks to everyone for all the thoughtful responses. There’s much to think about, and this will be helpful to refer to. The weather and the quarter system are things I didn’t ask about, but are obviously very important. Personally, I think the quarter system is problematic for the field in which I teach, but my D may be fine with it. Winter… that may be another story entirely.</p>

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<p>FWIW, I have not found the winters in Chicago oppressing or miserable or anything like that. And no, I’m not a native midwesterner!</p>

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<p>Wow, unalove, that’s impressive. I have some harsh memories of walking across the midway to get to Burton Judson during Winter Quarter. I’m from the mid-atlantic and thought I knew winter, but Chicago has some bone-chilling weather, and parts of campus (like the Midway) are pretty barren during the winter. I found winter quarter to have a completely different feel than any other time at the U of C.</p>

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<p>I’m from northern Ohio, so the weather is really about the same as it is in Chicago. But I still have every other person tell me that the Chicago winters are the worst. I think people just like to say that.</p>

<p>Though I’m already enrolled at UChicago, I’ve read some great things in this thread. I’m glad I picked a school where I don’t have to pretend to be indifferent toward my classes.</p>

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<p>JBVirtuoso - I guess a lot of U of C types find Chicago winters to be tough primarily because a large segment of the school is not originally from the midwest. I’d say at least 50% of the students come from the Mid-atlantic, the South, or the west coast. The midwest has some of the hardest winters around, and it’s not really comparable to anything found on the west coast or south, and not even to the situation in the mid-atlantic. It’s definitely an adjustment for some people.</p>

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<p>So about those winters… is it cold and gray or cold and sunny? Windy always? When does Fall end and Spring begin in Chicago?</p>

<p>My D agrees with JBvirtuoso - it would be awful to be expected to feign indifference to the academic experience.</p>

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<p>Fauxnom - I think the mid-atlantic and the midwest probably have about the same number of sunny winter days, but the difference is the temperature and sheer amount of snowfall. Chicago winters are just COLDER, and there’s a lot more snow. Also, since the midway bisects campus and is completely open, the walks across the midway can be pretty unpleasant. The cold winter wind feels like it’s just cutting through you. It definitely made me understand what the phrase “bonechilling cold” means. It never really gets that bad in the NYC/Philly/Baltimore segment of the mid-atlantic. </p>

<p>One other note, keep in mind Chicago starts a lot later than other schools because of the quarter system. The U of C starts fall semester very late in September, and it starts getting cooler by mid-October. Snow usually starts to fall in November, and it stays pretty cold until mid-late March. So the biggest problem is, since Chicago starts late, it feels like it gets cold very early on in the school year.</p>

<p>A final note about this - spring quarter at chicago is AWESOME, because after the tough winters, people really feel like they’ve EARNED the nice weather, and the campus has a really cool vibe.</p>

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<p>Philadelphia in the winter rarely has successive days where the temperature never gets above freezing – maybe that will happen for a couple of cold snaps each year. And there may be 5-6 scattered days when the temperature falls below 20 F. Chicago often has successive days of sub-freezing weather, and nighttime/early morning temperatures are often below 20 F, indeed not uncommonly below 0 F. Plus a lot of wind, and wide streets, long distances between buildings. The cold feels colder. As for snow, I don’t think Chicago actually gets that much more snowfall. It’s to the west of Lake Michigan, so it doesn’t get lake effect snow at all. But the snow sticks around more (as ice, generally) because it doesn’t warm up enough to melt it.</p>

<p>I remember getting a call one morning from my daughter two winters ago. She was in a great mood. It was sunny, and she said she knew it was a nice day because her heart didn’t stop when she opened the front door. It was 27 F – the warmest morning in two weeks.</p>

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<p>According to good ol’ Wikipedia, the average annual snowfall in Chicago is 38 inches. This past winter, however, Chicago received 50 inches of snow.</p>

<p>In New York, the average is 24 inches per year. The article doesn’t give last year’s total, but it does say that it varies considerably from year to year.</p>

<p>So it appears as though Chicago really does get quite a bit more snow than New York. However, New York does have frequent nor’easters, while Chicago really has nothing of the sort.</p>

<p>Boston, on the other hand, receives an average of 41 inches of snow per year. So Chicago’s snowfall isn’t as bad as some areas on the east coast.</p>

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<p>JbVirtuoso - Yah New England is probably comparable to Chicago for winter. I don’t think a ton of kids at U of C hail from New England though. Mid-atlantic (NYC specifically, a lot of philly people too) and west coast seem pretty well represented, but not a ton of New Englanders.</p>