<p>Can you measure a program by one poor production? I wouldn't ask this question if the performance was weak in one area. At the same time hundreds of students are trying to get in this schools program. Could I be wrong in discounting this school? (it will remain unnamed of course.) And during another college visit we saw a show at a small school that isn't even part of this web site that knocked our socks off in the acting area! We did not see a musical but the set, the lighting and the costumes were excellent. The casting was spot on and it was obvious that these BFA students were skilled at their craft.</p>
<p>The quality of the productions is simply one area that can be used in judging a school's program. In the case of the school where you saw an excellent set, lighting and costumes tells me that the school has a excellent tech dept that strongly supports their productions. That's important but I don't know if that tells me that much about the quality of the musical theater classes. </p>
<p>Other things I have run across:
---at one audition the college had student reps to talk to auditionees. One was a senior and she mentioned that she had yet to be cast in a main stage production. If a school has fabulous productions yet many students are never given the opportunity to preform in them, is that a chance you would want to take?
---a preforming arts high school in the next county over does fabulous shows. The leads are extremely talented and the sets/tech are top notch. However, those we know that attended the school have all stated that the classes are a waste of time.
---I have seen shows that weren't great, but I knew the actors from previous performances and they are very very talented. Which lead me to believe that possibly it was the director that they chose for that show. Often schools bring in outside directors.</p>
<p>I think it is important to view a school's show. But take your opinions of the show and analyze them to determine what they indicate about the school's program. It's my personal opinion that the curriculum content and quality are one of the most important criterias for choosing a school whereas the school's show would be further down on my priority level.</p>
<p>OK, I am going to potentially enter some "hot water" here :D, but my D did not pick her school based on the productions she saw, but for the training she would receive. As you can tell from my account profile my D is a freshman at NYU/Tisch/CAP. Although Tisch puts on some nice productions on occasion, it is fair to say that most shows are put on in rather smaller sized venues, due to the obvious cost of performance space and the overall size of the performing arts program as a whole.</p>
<p>She was really fortunate last year to receive several acceptances to some great schools, and although she was at times very impressed with a school's production that did not necessarily mean that the school ultimately was a good fit for her. Yes, you do get an idea of the talent that is in the program, but don't forget that not every programs demands that everyone auditions, and so what you see on stage, can be somewhat of a tainted reflection of that talent. Plus, and again, this holds especially true for NYU, where performance space is limited and a lot of shows take place in smaller venues, one should not be surprised at the varying scales of mainstage productions. "Bigger is not always better" :).</p>
<p>Productions are not the sole purpose of a training program. They are the product of a process that is highly challenging and fraught with difficulties and you have no idea why that production was, in your estimation, “weak.” Educational theatre is the last time in any performers/designers/directors/technicians career that they can fail utterly without the dire consequences associated with failing in the professional arena. Therefore, sometimes productions take on challenges that the students are not yet ready for, but the challenge will provide an educational opportunity that the program thinks is important. </p>
<p>For example: I have been a part of, and have seen, many college productions of Shakespeare. In my considered opinion only a very small percentage of those productions were anything but less than stellar. Yet, our program will produce one very difficult classical piece every two years so students get the opportunity to train in that arena. On the other side of that coin, we recently completed a very successful production of "Company.” That “success” was based on the criteria we set out for that production. The audience was asked to buy into the idea that the 18-22 year old students were middle aged people questioning the nature of marriage and relationships. The audience did that, but if that same audience were expecting a professional production they would have been frankly disappointed. The show sounded lovely, looked amazing and was very tight, but the 21 year old student who sang "Here's to the Ladies who Lunch" wasn't Elaine Stritch by a long shot – she is an amazing young performer, but nobody would mistake her for a middle aged jaded thrice divorced woman. So, I would ask you to review your criteria of what was and wasn't weak.</p>
<p>If it were easy, everyone would be able to do it. One production should be taken into account, but it should not be the litmus test for any program - good or bad. Look closely at the faculty, find out if they are still working in the profession or indeed ever did. That does not indicate they are quality teachers, but in general it indicates that they understand the process of mounting a successful production and the production you saw may have been an anomaly. </p>
<p>As a designer, I will tell you quite honestly that the production values of the technical department and the performance departments have very little to do with one another. I know programs where one is excellent and the other is dreadful. However, if we are speaking in generalities, if the tech is supported the rest of the program tends to be as well. </p>
<p>I would take exception to the idea that some students “never get the opportunity to perform.” BFA programs that are NAST accredited are required to make certain that each BFA student has the chance to perform a “significant role.” That having been said, this is a brutal business and many, many programs take students that will never see the stage. They do not accept the student with that in mind, but any audition will not always show the talents, drive, ability to take direction, etc. that the classroom will ultimately show. Your son or daughter is paying to train in the classroom. If that classroom training manifests itself in casting opportunities that is wonderful. But few programs will guarantee roles. One can argue that the student not cast might have been guided towards other opportunities in the theatre, but here again, you have no idea why that student had not found time on stage. Perhaps they simply did not show up to class and fully participate in the training, and maybe the initial audition was the full sum of their talents and they were never able to make it beyond those two minutes. I applaud the program that would have that student in a Q&A session. There are no guarantees in the business – ever. Even in the safer world of educational theatre it is about who is right for the role.</p>
<p>I think it would be wrong to discount ANY school based on one show. How many productions does the program do in a year? What types of shows do they do? Do they do the type of shows that will challenge their students, or do they do the traditional, familiar more typical kinds of musicals? Are there student run shows? Are their tech requirements? There are many different facets of productions that should be a part of the equation of deciding whether a program is a good one for you or not, but basing a decision on one particular show would be silly, in my opinion.</p>
<p>During the years that my D was at Tisch, I saw dozens of shows and that didn't even come close to being a representative sample of what was produced there. With over 100 productions a year, it would be impossible to see all of them. There were some shows that were excellent both in terms of production values and the performances, there were some that were good in one area and not as good in another, there were some shows where the performances were inconsistent, there were many where you could see the challenges presented and it was rewarding to see kids rise to those challenges. To base an opinion of the school itself solely on ANY of those would have been pointless. Keep in mind that these are students and they are learning their craft. To see variations in levels of talent is going to happen at every college.</p>
<p>When we visited colleges, we were only able to see productions at two of my daughter's eight schools and so the productions truly did not play a role in her college selection. The program itself was the biggest factor, and what she was going to college for primarily anyway. I do think seeing productions can be helpful and you do get a window on the talent. At a small program where there are just a couple of mainstage shows that represent a significant number of those who attend, you might actually be able to infer about the talent of the students who attend. This would be harder to do at a school that is either larger or that has many productions per year of various levels. </p>
<p>At Tisch, there are about 100 productions per year of various levels. I think attending one production would not be conclusive of the total talent at Tisch in terms of the students, nor the level of all productions that are put on. For one thing, as likely is true at other programs, my D would say there is a range of talent within the program's student body. Moreover, there is a wide range of production levels and qualities. I have seen a number of productions with outstanding talent during my chlld's four years at Tisch. She also has raved about certain productions and certain talent she has seen that I have not attended. My D recently saw one production which I do not care to name or be more specific about, that was not on the level of other shows she has seen while at Tisch. She commented to me about it because it wasn't on par with what she is used to seeing there. I can think of one show my own kid was in that wasn't at the level of some other shows she has been in too. She has been in some really high quality shows and one that had a more uneven level. While she is still the same person, the level of the shows differed that she was in. </p>
<p>One other thing....some shows at Tisch are in very small theater spaces and so their production quality in terms of sets is not like the shows in larger venues. So, keep that in mind. It won't "look" the same to see a show in a space that holds 50 in the audience and one that holds 1000. That said, I have seen some amazing talent in GAP shows (student run musicals) in an extremely small space called The Shop. </p>
<p>All that aside, you also might examine how some kids fare when they leave the school. </p>
<p>In any case, I would not sum up a school based on seeing ONE production, particularly if that production represents a small subset of the program in terms of the students involved, and also of the many productions put on.</p>
<p>My D was able to see shows at 4 of 5 of the schools she applied to. While this was not the only factor, the quality of the shows certainly influenced her ranking of the schools. </p>
<p>At one school the quality of the shows particularly bothersome. We saw a Musical Revue where individual talent of some students was obvious, but it had very poor choreography costume choices, staging, and overall presentation. We returned a few months later for a main-stage production and while this was a better production, it did not come close to being the same quality as the shows we had seen at other schools. I might add that both of these shows were in the university's main theatre and neither were student directed. </p>
<p>The quality of shows are a factor among many to be considered. For an incoming student, a show is viewed as a reflection of the quality of the training they will receive and the quality of a production they potentially will be part of. I guess it comes down to how you view this interrelationship. After all, you would think a university would be showcasing their most talented and well trained students.</p>
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After all, you would think a university would be showcasing their most talented and well trained students.
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<p>Generally speaking, this is a valid point. But let me reflect on how it is at a school like Tisch. There are DIFFERENT LEVELS of shows which thus allow for a variety of performance experiences. There are main stage shows in which every Tisch student from any studio is eligible to be cast. These are quite competitive to get into and the talent overall in those productions have been strong based on what I have seen (just one opinion, however). Even my own kid who was in the mainstage show last year felt that the level of the actual experience was different than some other level shows she had been in at Tisch (which were good). Then, there are studio based productions where the studio puts on shows as learning opportunities for their own studio students. You definitely have to audition to get into these, so it is selective, but not as much so as Mainsatage shows (less kid are eligible). Then, in CAP21, they usually have one production JUST for second year students and one production for JUST third year students in that one studio. A limited number of kids are eligible to audition though it is selective and not all get in. But the selectivity may differ from an all Tisch audition, for example. Then, there are student produced shows through GAP and frankly many of these have a great deal of talent. There are student directed shows put on by directing students. And many other types of shows as well. So, not every show is necessarily showcasing the very best of all of Tisch itself. I'm not sure if I am making sense here. That said, even a studio based show or student directed show can be phenomenal (I have seen such productions). But you could get a studio based show that offered auditions to a limited number of students that may not be on the level that another production is at Tisch. It can vary. This is not like a school that has just a few productions per year where the most talented and trained students make it in. There are many performance opportunities for students and so students of varying abilities may be in them, depending on the show and the level of that particular production. </p>
<p>I do agree that viewing productions at a school is beneficial in exploring the school. But seeing just ONE production doesn't always tell the entire story of that school, or particularly at a school that puts on many productions open to various subsets of the school or at differing levels.</p>
<p>While seeing a show at a prospective school can be informative and provide a feel for the talent of the students and the training they receive, I agree that it should not be unduly weighted in your evaluation process. I have seen about 16 shows at my D's school over the last year and a half. Most of them have been very good, some have been stellar and some not to my expectations. If I were a visitor at the school and happened to be there for a show that left me cold, that one impression would give me a very skewed view.</p>
<p>As to "showcasing" the most talented and best trained students, while shows in college productions are cast by audition, which could lead to an assumption about who gets cast, it is important to keep in mind that at some schools the productions are part of the educational process and by purpose and design as many different students get cast as there are total roles in the shows. For example, at my daughter's school, about 16 shows are staged a year. Half are mainstage and half are black box/studio. The school has a rule that students may be cast in only one show a semester and all students audition for all of the semester's shows at the same time. Because it is a relatively small to small/medium size program and freshmen rarely if ever get cast, it is not unusual to have 2/3 or more of the sophs, jrs and seniors cast in any semester. That is by design to maximize student opportunities. It's to be expected that there will be a diversity of talent, degree of training and experience spread through out the shows. To get a full and complete picture of the student body and the level of training and talent, you need a much greater "sample" then a single show on one visit.</p>
<p>Michael, you expressed it better than I. I agree with all you wrote and that has been my first hand experiences as well.</p>
<p>Good points Soozie and Michael.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your input.</p>
<p>Can you tell me where the Main Stage is at NYU, when the performance is/was, and how large of a theater is it?</p>
<p>I don't know what you mean about "when the performance is/was."</p>
<p>However, there are sooooooo many shows at Tisch, and mainstage shows are a small percentage of these. For instance, there are studio shows at studios like CAP21, Strasberg, ETW, and so on. </p>
<p>Also, Mainstage shows are not ALL in the same venue as one another either! For instance, I saw Hair, an all Tisch Mainstage, that was at the Skirball Center which is a theater that is like a Broadway theater type of theater. But last year, my D was in the Mainstage Musical (for all of Tisch) and it was in the Abe Burrows Theater which is much smaller. It was still mainstage. </p>
<p>CAP will put on their own productions in a small studio space right at CAP. </p>
<p>My D was in a show recently at ETW and it was in the Frederick Loew Theater, which seats maybe about 100 in the Tisch building. She has written and will stage her own musical which is being put on in that same theater this May. </p>
<p>I have seen GAP shows (student directed musicals) in The Shop Theater which is very tiny. I have seen senior directing project musicals in small theaters in Playwrights Horizons. My D was also in a musical in the Graduate Musical Theater Writing department that was in a very small theater space.</p>
<p>The majority of musicals are NOT "Mainstage" ones. There is only ONE Mainstage musical at Tisch each year. But there are MANY musicals at Tisch each year. The ONE Maintage musical may be at Skirball (a Broadway sized theater) or it may not be (like last year's only mainstage musical, Only Children, was in the Abe Burrows which is considerably smaller). Please be aware that CAP21's OWN MUSICALS are not called "Mainstage" and are put on right at CAP21 in very small theater spaces.</p>