Can you make some suggestions regarding schools?

Prep School Admissions
21

<p>I realize that the SSAT is just a minor portion of the overall application -- but without any statistical comparison, it is really hard to judge whether he would have a good chance at a particular school.</p>

<p>I figured that the most important factor is that he really wants to go to a certain school,not because of the name -- names mean absolutely nothing to him, but because there are qualities of the school that appeal to him more than another school. Size, campus facilities, location, sports and ECs, available classes, special programs and opportunities, etc. </p>

<p>Once he can identify schools he likes, we will do our best to narrow it down and visit them. The problem is, how do we assess whether a school is a reach? Other than Andover and Exeter (not even under consideration) are the other top schools also reaches? It seems like we had some very qualified kids on the forum apply this year and not get accepted -- and they seem at least or more qualified as my son.</p>

<p>I am thinking that the list of schools I originally posted had two reaches -- Thatcher and St. Pauls School. Does that sound right?</p>

<p>The rest of the schools have varying acceptance rates, but if his SSAT scores put him above the average then I think he has a fair chance of admittance into those schools:
Mercersburg, Putney, Middlesex, Holderness, Proctor, Northfield Mount Hermon, Asheville, Midland, Millbrook, Fountain Valley, Conserve</p>

<p>Do I have any on the second list that should really be more of a reach school?</p>

<p>And finally -- how do you start narrowing down the list without needing to visit all of them? Do we eliminate schools that don't have very many classes in an area he likes? (who knows, he could change his mind on what he likes in two years) Eliminate schools who don't offer track and field (he does shotput -- but just started, it isn't like he can't live without it). Eliminate schools with formal dress codes? (he doesn't like the idea, but agrees that it is a silly reason to not chose a school)</p>

<p>It seems like we have a pretty good list -- we are adding Salisbury to it -- but now to narrow it down. We will only be able to make 2-3 trips to check out schools this fall and two of the schools that he really, really is interested in are Thatcher and Conserve -- which are no where near the other schools.</p>

<p>Thatcher is going to be a reach but I think Conserve would be a match, plus Conserve provides significant financial aid to 90% of the students -- it is just so isolated (which doesn't seem to bother him).</p>

22

<p>I honestly don't think financial aid should come into your application process at all because the schools get a ton of money from donations and even though 30-40 grand seems like a lot of money to many of us, it isn't for the schools. </p>

<p>Before you scratch out all the top ten, I would say that although I had direct contact with pretty much seven of them, Hotchkiss, to me, stood out as one that really, really, really did not care at all that we would be applying for FA. No name calling, but Exeter was the school I really didn't like and Andover was a close second...okay, back to behaving myself....</p>

23

<p>I'd try to identify which schools require a visit and which schools are more relaxed about it. That might give you some idea of which to focus on, in terms of narrowing your visit schedule (not in terms of eliminating schools altogether). Of course the schools that your son is intially tepid about that require a visit might fall from the list of schools he applies to. And the one's he's very much attracted to that don't require visits may lend themselves to visits nevertheless.</p>

<p>I'd also put Mercersburg, Middlesex and maybe NMH on the reach list. Not for your S, but for most applicants. (I say "maybe NMH" because I'm impressed with it from all accounts I've heard, yet I'm mostly ignorant about its admission standards.)</p>

<p>Your son's objection to a dress code makes me laugh. My son started out with three quick criteria to eliminate schools. Single sex schools were crossed off the list for starters. I gave him that. Then he wanted to avoid formal dress and Saturday classes. I respected those preferences but wouldn't let him eliminate a school for those reasons alone. Sure enough, as he started researching schools more and more, he'd start forming impressions based on criteria that were more important to him. His favorite schools were about equally split on dress and I believe all of them had Saturday classes. All things being equal, I think he'd veer away from formal dress and Saturday classes. But things are never equal. In the end, those last two factors were totally irrelevant to developing the final list of schools he applied to.</p>

24

<p>Any idea why so many bs have Saturday morning classes? I've been wondering about that. Those that do also have the free Wednesday afternoon for sports. Is it just a tradition type of thing or is there an actual reason for it?
BTW, I don't know much about Thacher, but St. Pauls is as much of a reach (if not more than) Exeter/Andover. I think they had the lowest percentage of admits largely due to high numbers of applicants and their small size.</p>

25

<p>My understanding of the reasoning for Saturday morning classes is that first, they like to have longer holiday and spring breaks. Nice for boarding families who have to fly kids home and for faculty/staff who get completely away from the kids at these times (as opposed to Sundays when many of them pull extra duty for various "activities" that keep the kids occupied).</p>

<p>The other thing is that at schools with high percentages of boarders, if all you had on Saturdays were sports competitions and artistic events, kids would wander off and get in to mischief. Filling the morning with classes (to make up for those long holidays) leaves afternoon for other events.</p>

<p>As to Wednesday athletic competitions, it allows schools to schedule enough competitions into their 10+1 week terms, when you can have 2 in a week during the prime part (often after 2 weeks of practice) and leave the last week of the term (before finals) for playoffs and such. Plus it breaks up what would otherwise be a 6-day workweek when you factor in Saturday morning classes.</p>

<p>Pretty good planning in my opinion.</p>

<p>I think you will find that many of the schools with 5-day class weeks also have a lot of students who go home on weekends or day students - not as good for the boarding environment IMHO.</p>

26

<p>Even as a day student at Loomis in the 70s, the Saturday class schedule was just part of the whole experience. Loomis runs on a 2 week rotation with alternate Saturdays off. Saturday classes were more relaxed -- it did not have the feel of a regular class day. No chapel for one thing -- and no study halls. It was more of a collegiate day -- come in for the classes you have and leave when you are done. As it was the dress-code-less 70s it wasn't called 'dress down' day, but it had that casual sort of feel. I don't recall ever having a test on Saturday.</p>

27

<p>the information we got on this thread helped to make his list even longer -- </p>

<p>right now, these are the schools that were either mentioned on the thread or PM's to me:</p>

<p>Middlesex
Thacher
St. Paul’s
Lawrenceville
Blair
Peddie
Taft
St. George’s
Choate
Mercerburg
Putney
Holderness
Proctor
Northfield Mount Hermon
Asheville
Midland
Millbrook
Fountain Valley
Conserve
Hotchkiss
Deerfield
Salisbury
Loomis
Concord
Milton
Episcopal High
New Hampton
Scattergood
St. Andrew’s, DE
Cate
Westtown
Cranbrook
Leelanu
Orme
Verde Valley
Culver
Baylor
McCallie
Culver
George School (Penn)</p>

<p>so -- how do I start eliminating schools from the list? With FA such an important factor, it seems to me that I should eliminate any school that isn't good with significant FA -- but how do I tell? Should I look at a combination of endowment size and % of kids on FA?</p>

<p>After that, I thought I would eliminate schools based on academics -- does that make sense? perhaps those with lower test scores (although the info on BS review is not always accurate) or those that don't have the best matriculation rates? Maybe class size or % of teachers with upper degrees? variety of classes?</p>

<p>He has more than enough schools on the list -- so now we need to get rid of some for a reason other than -- "The viewbook isn't as appealing"</p>

<p>One factor that could really eliminate some of these schools -- will a kid on significant FA feel out of place at any of these schools? Any of these schools really just for the really rich and they really don't like the poor kids? I know that there will be differences -- we don't take fancy vacations and have fancy cars -- but I have met plenty of extremely weathly people who didn't flaunt it. he would feel out of place if the money that the other kids had let them participate in programs or activities while he could not. anyway -- I don't know if I expressed that well, but hopefully someone understands what I am saying.</p>

28

<p>This is dumb...but that just explains why I did this for starters: map them all onto GoogleEarth. Identify clusters that you can get to. There will be some that just don't make sense anymore once you combine limited attractiveness and remoteness (from other schools you need to visit).</p>

29

<p>Your list looks pretty good (and long too!lol) I think you can eliminate the ones that aren't as great as some of the others. You can find out about SSAT test scores and other data, such as endowment size and the percentage of FA, at <a href="http://www.boardingschoolreview.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.boardingschoolreview.com&lt;/a>. If your son feels any really strong objections to some of the things that the school does, you might want to cross it off.</p>

30

<p>When looking at the FA numbers for a school, it isn't as important what percentage are on FA - they may "discount" their tuition $5K to lots of people as a marketing thing - look at the average grant. A school with a higher average grant is more likely to give a generous grant to those who they see as desireable candidates.</p>

<p>If you concentrate on the schools where your child can strengthen their program (an art area or music area or athletic team), you are more likely to get a more generous grant. Not to be crass about it, but those whose talents improve a program pay less in the marketplace of boarding schools. Anyone with money can tag along.</p>

31

<p>That's quite a list! I think you should make cuts according to your own/his own criteria:</p>

<p>"He is looking for a school with a fairly casual atmosphere, with down-to-earth, interested and engaged kids. He would like a school where he could be in the top 10-15% academically and the atmosphere is more cooperative than cutthroat. He is interested in the outdoors and wants a program that has some outdoor component. Location is not an issue -- if it isn't the local school, he would have to fly anyway. I would like the school to send at least a few students to the Ivies/top schools -- he doesn't want to go to any Ivy, but I don't want any doors shut at this point. No military type schools".</p>

<p>Because the outdoor programs and casual atmosphere are most important to him/you, examine the schools on your list and eliminate the ones that are not so strong in this area. For example, Milton is sort of an urban school -- not far from Boston. They might not have the outdoor focus he wants, and I am guessing that it might be hard for him to be in the top 10 - 15% there (as it would be for almost anyone). </p>

<p>I heard on this board, but it might not be correct, that much of the financial aid for Quaker schools goes to Quaker children. You could ask the school if this is the case. I agree with goaliedad's advice on FA. Think through what your son can offer. To some schools, getting a student Colorado is attractive but might not be enough. </p>

<p>You and your son might comb through the websites of these schools to find out which activities are very important to the school. Unfortunately, the majority of boarding schools attract wealthy families because it is so expensive. Those large endowments became large because there is wealth there. </p>

<p>If I were in your position, I would eliminate any of the schools that have a low boarding population, especially if it is a small school. Use the schools' website or email them to get this info. Boardingschoolreview is very out of date for some of this.</p>

<p>You and your son will be busy this summer!</p>

32

<p>thanks for all the great suggestions -- </p>

<p>putting together everyone's suggestions (and a few things my son wants to add) we are going to be looking at the schools for these:</p>

<p>Location (great idea D'yer Maker)
Average FA grant (thanks goaliedad)
eliminate all boys school/military type schools (son's idea)
eliminate schools that do not have outdoor type programs -- or something similiar
eliminate schools with low boarding rate (less than 70% boarding?)</p>

<p>AliJ -- I know that their are tons of really top schools on the list, but to be honest -- I don't think my son would necessarily be happiest at the very top academic school. Since he really wants to be at the top of the students, I think he would be happier at a good school that doesn't necessarily have the name recognition.</p>

<p>GoalieDad -- I know that schools "pay" for students that add something to their school, but I just don't know what he would add. No real sports -- probably some good potential for weight events for track (shotput, javelin, discus) but so far just 6th in district (no coaching for this here). Grades are good, but I don't anticipate him being a NMS. He will most likely go to nationals in the future for history day. he is not a minority, so the only thing he really has going for him is that he will be a good student from Colorado. </p>

<p>it will take us a few weeks to go through this list and figure out what to eliminate. Since i don't necessarily want to trust boarding school review -- I am going to be emailing the schools.</p>

<p>Again -- thanks for all the comments. We will just be taking our time this summer and evaluating his options.</p>

33

<p>BTW, McCallie is all boys. I believe you were looking at co-ed only. So that's one less!</p>

34

<p>ok -- more questions (this is frustrating trying to make these decisions in a vaccuum).</p>

<p>what kind of parameters should I use to determine whether a school gives good financial aid and whether it is a "rich kids" school or whether my son would not feel like the only poor kid there.</p>

<p>Personally -- I am thinking that if only 30% or less of the kids attending the school are on FA, he would feel out of place. Since there are probably some kids that only have small FA amounts, that means that most of the kids live with parents who can afford to pay for all or almost all of the $35,000+ cost of boarding school. </p>

<p>Does it sound reasonable? What I did was look at the % that are on FA and eliminated those schools that have 29% or less. That eliminates these schools -- </p>

<p>Middlesex
Thacher
Lawrenceville
St. George's
Choate
Holderness
Proctor
Millbrook
Concord
Milton
Cate
Cranbrook
Stevenson
Leelanau</p>

<p>I still have far too many schools on the list, but that cuts it down somewhat. Am I being reasonable?</p>

<p>I am sure these schools are all great, etc. But I have to eliminate schools on the list and this seems like one way to do that.</p>

35

<p>next thing to eliminate schools for is size. he is thinking that a school less than 550 kids (that is the size of his school right now). He would prefer a smaller school (100-400 kids) but he is willing to look at schools up to 650 kids.</p>

<p>so that eliminates these schools:</p>

<p>Exeter
Andover
Choate
Lawrenceville
Cranbrook
Culver
Milton</p>

<p>And then I thought we would eliminate schools with less than 70% boarding, which eliminates:</p>

<p>peddie
milton
lawrenceville</p>

<p>The exception to this is Fountain Valley with 63% boarding, but this is the local boarding school and he really wants to apply.</p>

<p>so -- his still very long list is:</p>

<p>St. Paul's
Blair
Taft
Mercerburg
Putney
NMH
Asheville
Fountain Valley
Conserve
Hotchkiss
Deerfield
Salisbury
Midland
Loomis
Episcopal High
New Hampton
Scattergood Friends
St. Andrews, DE
Westtown
Baylor
McCallie
George School (Penn)
Kimball Union
Dublin
Groton
The Hill School</p>

<p>He is willing to consider all-boys schools but not military type.</p>

<p>my next step is to take a look at academics and whether the school has an outdoor type program. </p>

<p>sorry for thinking aloud!</p>

36

<p>Loomis and Baylor both have boarding below 70%. I know in the case of Loomis, it is a large enough school that the 60% boarding is still a large group.
You might want to check through your boarding percents again. I think I remember reading once that all seniors at Westtown are required to board.</p>

37

<p>You said you didn't want cutthroat schools and that your son was bright, but probably not going to be a national merit scholar. You have plenty of schools on your list, but there a few you might find a bit too competitive for your son:</p>

<p>SPS
Hotchkiss
Deerfield
Groton</p>

<p>Your list has so many different kinds of schools, it's hard to really narrow it down more without you deciding exactly what you want. Do you want a stronger math or english program, for example? Are there any sports the school must have? Do you have any preferences for the dorms? Most of Deerfield's dorms are single and Groton's dorms are coed, I think. Is there any mission statement you want your son to follow? Are there any specific values you really want your son to learn? Some schools stress tradition while others stress progressive education. What do you want? Do you want Harkness tables, lectures, or regular classroom discussions? Where do you want your school? Northeast? South? etc. </p>

<p>These are just a few questions you need to ask yourself. After deciding what you want, you should be able to narrow your list down to about 10 schools.</p>

38

<p>burb parent and porpoisepal -- thanks, the info helped.</p>

<p>He took a look at the different school's websites to see what the student life, academics and whether they had an outdoor program. </p>

<p>Here is the final list (much smaller!)</p>

<p>Mercersburg
NMH
Fountain Valley
Conserve
Midland
St. Andrews, DE</p>

<p>Please let me know if any of these sound like they would be a bad choice.</p>

<p>next, we order viewbooks and see about visits this fall.</p>

<p>I think it is a good list -- the academics look strong, the schools are the size he likes, decent financial aid, some type of outdoor program and none are the super-selective, everyone wants to apply to them schools. I think he would probably get into a least one of these and hopefully a few -- along with FA.</p>

39

<p>i think u should look closely at lawrenceville. although i didnt choose this school i went to visit and everyone was extremely nice and welcoming. its definitely worth looking at.
also, lawrenceville has great academics and sports.</p>

40

<p>That looks like a very good list to me given his interest in outdoors/conservation. The only potential problem is that a few of the schools have small endowments. As a result, they might not be able to offer you the large financial aid award you want. Certainly, I don't know much about this -- I'm just guessing. If I were in your position, I would take a look at the schools you deleted and consider adding 2 more or holding at least 2 in reserve until you have all the facts on the 6 you selected. Doing it now is probably better because you can remember the reasons you deleted the school. Also, when you do your visits, you might discover that one or two schools that looked great on paper just don't feel right.<br>
Six carefully selected school is a good number for final applications I think, especially if all the schools are not super competitive. Of the schools you selected, St. Andrews is competitive, but it is supposed to be a gem of a school and seems right on target for what your son wants.<br>
It is refreshing to have someone look for fit first.</p>