Can you make some suggestions regarding schools?

Prep School Admissions
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<p>I haven't seen your other thread -- so I am going to take a look.</p>

<p>I think class ranking can play a part -- but I would still be concerned. A school that hasn't had more than one kid interested in applying to the top schools in five years -- that just doesn't sit right with me.</p>

<p>My son is interested in a different sort of bs than most, no big names -- outdoor/environmental component, doesn't have to be east coast --but all the schools on the list, including Midland (where you milk the cows) and Converve (in the middle of nowhere) all send kids to the top schools, and if you read about the climate of the school, I get the feeling we are not talking cutthroat competition type schools. </p>

<p>I know a bit about service academies -- I live in Colorado Springs and know a ton of kids who have applied, graduated from or are attending the Air Force Academy. I would look for a school that has successfully placed a student at the Naval Academy before that would challenge and yet not overwhelm your son.</p>

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<p>We are in general, avoiding the "big names" because of the intensity that goes along with them. I think our priorites are similar.</p>

63

<p>You could have been my mom 7 years ago! Mom heard that BSs offered scholarships to deserving kids and created a long list that looked a lot like your original one but included all of the top schools. I had a 4.0, a 92 SSAT and was OK at a sport but not Andover quality. I was also from North Dakota.</p>

<p>The schools and their info were so encouraging. Then came reality. There is almost no money for a white kid with no hook. The less known the school the less money in general. I did not get into any of the top schools and quickly found out what financial aid means at most others: LOANS accompanied by small grants. Nothing like what I got for college. Nothing like what the schools made it sound like in the application process. The white American kids who got the money were athletes, pure and simple.</p>

<p>By the time we realized this we had seen so many great schools and it was hard to think about going back to my local public school. My parents ended up borrowing a lot of money to send me to a great school but not one of the schools mentioned here.</p>

64

<p>thanks for the reality check, collegekid. I know it isn't guaranteed, but I think we will see what happens. His local public is the fallback, so I will make sure he stays enthusiastic about attending it.</p>

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<p>Times change, endowments grow (especially in the last year or two) and I know many white non-athletes who have gotten a good amount of aid. Not full rides - no one does that hardly, but a good % of demonstrated need.<br>
You might, if you haven't already, fill out a finanacial aid statement and just have it sent to you to see what your demonstrated need is. That would give you an idea of what you you will be expected to contribute (add to the figure they give you).<br>
I know many on your list DO offer financial aid to kids without significant "hooks." And it is true can't meet all the need. But you never know until you apply. Our saying is "the answer is automatically no if you don't ask."</p>

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<p>The issue Linda, is whether it's a good idea for many parents to take the kind of loans most schools require as part of the aid package. My parents were making about $50K, which got me amazing college aid but they borrowed $32K for high school. Not smart based on what I know now and I also realize I will need to help pay the loans back, in addition to my college loans, when I graduate. I'm not saying not to try, just telling my experience in case it helps anyone.</p>

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<p>hsmomstef:
Clear some of your PM's I'm trying to send you one. :)</p>

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<p>Linda -- cleared!</p>

<p>collegekid -- we wouldn't take out loans. We can afford a certain amount and the rest would need to be given in the form of grants. I think I will do some checking with the schools he is interested in and see if they usually include loans in the FA package for families with our income level. The schools I have talked with do not.</p>

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<p>I really don't know what they do below my parent's income of $50K so you may be very correct. I can only tell you that every school I was accepted at, 4, with one having average SSAT of almost 80 and the others in the low 70s, required a significant (to my family) loan, and that the loan amount was increased after the first year. It's a game. I do think Andover, SPS, Deerfield and a few others give no loans to the kids they all really want and who will get into them all. I can also tell you that I felt very mislead by schools and coaches about aid possibilities. Loans are always listed last on their lists regarding how you will pay! Just apply they tell you, we work with you! My parents had low income and $100K equity in their home and some schools offered nothing. The best deal ended up costing us over $12K/yr average and I think I didn't get as hosed as some people because I did end up being an athlete they wanted to keep. I had several friends in the same boat. Even urms.</p>

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<p>SPS pays for 100% of tuition for families with an income of under $60,000.</p>

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<p>SPS is well-known for great FA -- one of the reasons I was encouraging my son to apply.</p>

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<p>When my older son attended NMH, they had a policy of being able to provide about 75% of a family's perceived need. Part of this was in loans, but most of our package was a grant. I think we borrowed $15,000 overall. My son was a fairly local white kid with no real "hook". So....the aid is there. NMH does better now and their goal is to provide the full amount you need, but some of this could still be in loans.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
When my older son attended NMH, they had a policy of being able to provide about 75% of a family's perceived need. Part of this was in loans, but most of our package was a grant. I think we borrowed $15,000 overall. My son was a fairly local white kid with no real "hook". So....the aid is there. NMH does better now and their goal is to provide the full amount you need, but some of this could still be in loans.

[/quote]

Yes, many schools' FA policies will say that they do not meet 100% of demonstrated need with grants. Definitely read the FA page of the school website anywhere you apply if FA is a concern. You will often find statements that allude to the school's inability to fully meet demonstrated need. Often a call to the school will allow you to find out whether the policy is to fund 80%, 90% or any other percentage of demonstrated need through grants. And that may be only calculated on tuition (excluding books, travel, other expenses, etc), so ask questions.</p>

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<p>researching the financial aid stuff is the next step -- I have checked each schools FA stats (% on aid, avg.grant) and read the FA page -- but that doesn't tell the whole story.</p>

<p>i hadn't thought to ask whether they try to provide 100% aid and if they include books, travel and other expenses in the calculations -- so I will be sure to find that out.</p>

<p>good aid is absolutely necessary, so if a school doesn't have good FA it would be a waste to apply no matter how good the fit.</p>

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<p>I do not think it just for white kids. We are asians and middle income family. Do not get that much FA money , too. Since my school district is not bad, so we will stay in the public school. My son is just above average. so.. I have a lot Asian friends who kids get reward in the national math and instrument. They do not have FA money, too. So "minority" is....</p>

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<p>In my opinion if you need aid your search and selection is a very different process than if you don't need aid. I like the specific questions proposed, we did not know to ask them. I think the schools raise the number of applicants by being very optimistic when explaining aid. I also think they get people to borrow who never planned to borrow. When you go on tours you get sucked in, these are clubs you want to belong to. Your parents realize just how bad your local education is in comparison. You start planning for the great coaching and classes. It becomes unimaginable to go back to that crummy single building that is your local HS rather than calling one of the magnificent schools home. Yes Yan, I know Asians are treated no better.</p>

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<p>I thought I'd post the questions our current school asked us when helping us narrow our list...</p>

<ol>
<li>Boarding or Day (we are lucky to have both options and the option to be a day student at several great boarding schools)</li>
<li>Single Sex or co-ed?</li>
<li>Saturday classes ok?</li>
<li>Dress Code feelings</li>
<li>Size of school </li>
<li>Anything special in terms of academics or athletics that is a must have?</li>
</ol>

<p>Of course in our case, other than a school under 600 - but preferably around 300 - my son is flexible. Doesn't help in narrowing our ever growing list, but does make it easier in some ways in not ruling out schools for one reason that may not be a deal breaker.</p>

<p>Questions I would add based on discussions here and with others:</p>

<ul>
<li>Meals - formal, family style, grab and go, cafe style?<br></li>
<li>Dorms and set up - room mates?<br></li>
<li>location - city, rural, in town, more of a "campus" feel, etc.<br></li>
</ul>

<p>I'm sure there are more and would love others to add to the list.</p>

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<p>Hey, can I answer these questions? Just to show people who are applying to BS my opinion... so they know what BS I'm going to and why I chose it.
Olivia - Choate Rosemary Hall '11.
1. Boarding or Day : Boarding
2. Single Sex or co-ed? : COED
3. Saturday classes ok? : Yes, but not every time
4. Dress Code feelings : not very strict like Deerfield, not extremely laidback
5. Size of school : large - at least above 600
6. Anything special in terms of academics or athletics that is a must have?
- good psychology courses, a LOT of electives, a program that focuses solely on writing (like the Capstone Project), and a course in Italian which I'd like</p>

<ul>
<li>Meals - cafe style - sit down at pre-determined lunchtime and eat with friends and leave whenever you want</li>
<li>Dorms and set up - Ah, a deciding factor for me when I chose schools to apply to... I NEED a roommate because I am an only child and I like being able to talk to one another before we're falling asleep so I knew I wanted to be in the same room - this would not be true at Andover, because the rooms are separated by a common room, and definitely not at Deerfield, because NOBODY gets roommates, but it was perfect at Choate for me, even though some people will like the spacious-dorm aspect ofo Andover.</li>
<li>location - small town, definitely not a city, but not separated from everything like some boarding schools are - good distance to NYC, Boston, and Newport, but also near some local cities. - Choate fits this criteria.</li>
</ul>

<p>Some more factors:</p>

<ol>
<li>How competitive? (i.e. AESDCH competitive or MAPL schools)</li>
<li>Preference of state, for family reasons? - I know this was a factor for J (prettyckitty), if she doesn't mind my saying.</li>
</ol>

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<p>Your list is incredibly similar to my son's sieve for his search!</p>

<p>He was already at the "top" private school locally and had gotten in to the public magnet school here. So the day options were already covered. Thus, since the remainder of the search was confined to boarding schools as a practical matter, we moved straight to #2 on your list.</p>

<p>For my son, the biggest consideration from the git-go was the single sex or co-ed question. He had some strong feelings that it should be co-ed -- even though I tried to help him understand that an all-boys' school (such as the one I attended) could be fantastic and it hardly precludes interaction with females. He stuck to that one very rigidly, refusing to so much as open a viewbook or visit a web page once that factor was established.</p>

<p>Right behind that were your #3 and #4. I'm not sure if there was an order. I think they were tied for the strength of his conviction that formal dress and Saturday classes were equally reprehensible.</p>

<p>After that we go to your #5. Largely because people had pretty much driven home the point that "bigger is badder" he decided that "smaller was better." (For a while I actually bought into that thinking, so I'm sure I reinforced that view on his part.)</p>

<p>And then there was your #6 as he had strong opinions about having lots of choices with athletics and an opportunity to grow into a sport or make a team without being recruited, and -- for academics -- his first sort was to get a viewbook and check out the depth of the Classics and math offerings. Other considerations were important (meals, dorms, locale, proximity to home) but there were no preconceived notions as to what made sense. Certainly not strong enough ideas to eliminate an otherwise appealing school without taking a look up close.</p>

<p>Which is sort of the point that -- finally, buried here, deep within my message -- I want to caution you about. Your ideas about what makes for a good fit, no matter how strong they are today, are likely to change and -- at least if your experience is anything like mine and my son's -- you're likely to learn that you're willing to be quite flexible about even the most sacred of your sifting out criteria.</p>

<p>In our case (and I can only give you my wimpy anecdotal lesson), once he dove into the viewbook and read student reviews on bsr.com and such, he was so engrossed that his top two factors (avoid formal dress and Saturday classes) were forgotten. He was more caught up in the overall atmosphere that he was soaking in to keep track of whether the academic experience at a school occurred in a coat and tie or on a Saturday morning.</p>

<p>One of the schools that he embraced and really wanted to attend was Phillips Exeter which totally busted his sieve, from dress code, to Saturdays, to size! But he liked what he had read and heard from others. He found the Classics and math offerings incredibly seductive. And, when he visited, he really liked the people and had a blast visiting with the music dept. Now, he didn't get accepted there so I can't say that it would have been a tragic loss if he had crossed it off his list because it failed all of his top criteria. But that experience also made him conscious of the fact that the question of "fit" is incredibly subjective and there are so many je ne sais quoi factors that can -- and probably will -- override the objective criteria. In the end, he's going to be wearing a tie all week long (yes, including some Saturday mornings) and he's very excited about it!</p>

<p>Be careful, as a parent especially, of placing too much emphasis on objective considerations. Believe me, I know the foolishness of this as well as anyone. For us, the objective criteria are pretty much all we've got to go by. So we tend to lean on them too heavily. This is embarrassing, but I had a mammoth spread sheet that I created for about 20 or so schools that tracked all sorts of data points, from basic stuff like names and phone numbers to interview dates to median SAT scores and, well, it only gets worse from there but I will say that the spread sheet fields that I tracked went beyond the letter Z. (Ugh.) So don't be me. Don't be a slave to the objective data. Be open and receptive to finding the best fit in the most unlikely of places.</p>

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<p>Olivia -</p>

<p>As an only child, I hope you don't wind up finding the whole roommate thing is overrated! :)</p>