<p>What are these 6 semester long sequences that you speak of?</p>
<p>Engineering majors have a set of courses that have prerequisites. That is you cannot take the second courses in the sequence without having completed the first one, and the third requires the second, and so on. The problem is that some of these courses are second year courses and you have to take these first.</p>
<p>You can do this analysis for yourself by looking at the curriculum at a specific university and then looking at their bulletin, which lists all courses and their prerequisites.</p>
<p>Interesting. Sounds unfortunate.</p>
<p>RIT also requires several coops from their engineers, hence the low 4 yr grad. rate</p>
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<p>An example is that you need to take calculus 1 before calculus 2. And you need to take calculus 2 before calculus 3. Of course, these courses will be needed at least concurrent with physics (typically, you start physics 1 after calculus 1, concurrently with calculus 2).</p>
<p>And then calculus 3 and physics are needed before you take more advanced engineering courses, some of which are required before taking other engineering courses. That may add up to a six or seven semester long sequence, of which one or maybe two might be trimmed off by AP credit.</p>
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<p>Perhaps more useful to ask is, how many students graduate with 8 semesters’ worth of school (or less)?</p>
<p>Here is an example of a course sequence flowchart … enjoy 
<a href=“http://inside.mines.edu/UserFiles/File/mechanicalEng/BSME%20Flowchart%202013-14%20(2).pdf[/url]”>http://inside.mines.edu/UserFiles/File/mechanicalEng/BSME%20Flowchart%202013-14%20(2).pdf</a></p>
<p>OP, you’re getting good information from many folks in this post.</p>
<p>Lake Jr.'s engineering program clearly will take at least 5-years, and he came in with mucho AP credit. As Xraymancs pointed out, not all AP credit will apply to a STEM major’s requirements. In Lake Jr.'s case, he satisfied all of his university core requirements (including the calculus sequence), but little else for engineering. With paid Co-ops inbetween coursework, it’s all quite bearable.</p>
<p>@ucb Yes, I am aware of sequences as such. Fortunately at my school, the longest sequence I’ve seen is seven semesters long, but it’s a set a prerequisites. I guess I don’t see the severity of the problem of having sequences. </p>
<p>@colorado
1)That flowchart is one of the worst flowcharts I have seen.
2) I didn’t enjoy it. :p</p>
<p>OP ~ I know this is not exactly what you asked, but I’m mentioning a frustration with the inflexible curriculum. We actually wanted our daughter to take 5 years to get-through an engineering degree at our state u. It seemed like everyone took 5 years anyway (the ones that didn’t drop-out, the minority) We were trying to encourage less-stress with more time available for other campus activities. We dared to bring this up at an information session - the horror. We got such a nasty response ~ no schedule, that deviated from the norm could be suggested - which was just ridiculous.</p>
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<p>Co-op semesters really should not count, since you are not paying for school during those semesters. What is more important in a practical sense is how many semesters of school he will need to graduate (if 8 or fewer, then that certainly is not “late” by this standard).</p>
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<p>Some students are not careful about scheduling courses, or choose not to take a given course in a given semester due to it being offered at 8am. If the courses not taken in the correct semester are part of a long sequence of courses, that could delay graduation by delaying the entire sequence of courses (especially if the school does not offer that course every semester).</p>
<p>snugapug, I can only imagine the frustration with not being able to deviate from the schedule. I have experienced a backlash from the engineering department only once - when I needed them to waive a prerequisite because I had AP credit. I had AP credit for a science course and they did not want to waive the lab portion in addition to the lecture. If they didn’t waive it, I would be put back a semester, essentially, waisting all of my AP credit and a semester. With some arm twisting and guilt tripping, they waived it. </p>
<p>The engineering department at my university is pretty flexible with schedules. I’m a year ahead in one area while being only a semester ahead in another area. They seem to not mind students moving around within the university’s courses, but they do mind when you’re trying to get the equivalencies for credit earned through exchange programs. It’s similar to pulling teeth. </p>
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That is the fault of the student. Every student should plan out their schedules from the current semester all the way up to graduation. If they choose to not take a necessary course that is reliant upon future courses because it is at 8 AM is on them. I understand that every student does not do this, but they should. I’m not being unsympathetic. I understand it is unfortunate when things don’t go according to plan and you’re held back because of it. It’s their degree, it’s courses that they’re taking, and ultimately their responsibility that they understand what needs to happen for them to graduate when they need to. </p>
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Yes, they’re graduation could be delayed up from a semester to as much as a year. </p>
<p>Stuff happens.</p>
<p>There are a lot of factors in play - how liberal the school/major is with AP credit, course requirements of major, sequencing issues, availability of courses in semester needed, whether a student wants to co-op, etc. Graduating in four years or less is sometimes possible, but not always. My D2 is on track to get her ChE degree in three years if all goes well, but the back-up plan is four years. She came in with about 50 hours credit, including two semesters each of calculus, chemistry (and labs) and physics, plus English, statistics and tested out of three semesters of Spanish. The STEM credits allowed her to get a full year ahead on ChemE sequences. She has plenty of friends who didn’t AP out of as much Chem or Calc and they are off sequence and very unlikely to graduate early. To my D’s credit, she laid out a 3-year plan using the sequencing chart for her school (like the lovely Mines one that was posted) and then met with her advisor her first semester to look at " doability." They checked sequencing and availability constraints as well as overloading. Her advisor is very supportive of plan she developed. Now she does register ASAP each term, take 8am classes if needed and has petitioned successfully to get in “full” sections. She is looking to intern this summer between year 2 and what will hopefully be her senior year. Doable, but not easy. We will be very happy if she finishes in four years.</p>
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<p>They probably don’t want students coming in planning for 10 semesters and actually taking 11 or 12 semesters after slipping up somewhere in scheduling. If it is a public school (where in-state students are on state subsidized tuition), they probably consider it enough of a problem that students coming in planning for 8 semesters actually take 9 or 10 semesters.</p>
<p>I am happy to say that Lake Jr. has an 8AM class five days a week this semester!</p>
<p>That sounds miserable. </p>
<p>(And I know it is certain mornings.)</p>
<p>I’m never taking another 8 AM class again unless I have to.</p>
<p>8 am… Is more painful when it doubles the commute time to literally an hour during rush hour. And so is a class from 7:30 PM - 9:35 PM because that’s a peak time when everybody I know goes to places to hang out…</p>
<p>If you’re coming in as a freshman with no AP credit, I’ll say good luck! I know my school isn’t very selective, but people fail Calculus placement tests and have to start out with Pre-Calculus (most likely this, it can be worse if you can’t pass an intermediate algebra test)… A ton of freshman engineers I know get the earliest orientations yet still can’t get Calculus I because it’s full from people signing up the year before. Then you have to find a spot in Calc II and so on with low priority w/out the AP credit boost.</p>
<p>total digression, but I loved today’s Dilbert cartoon 
(as the parent of engineers) [Comics</a> - The Washington Post](<a href=“Andrews McMeel Syndication - Home”>Andrews McMeel Syndication - Home)</p>
<p>@ Niquii77…LOL!!!</p>
<p>As a parent, I’ll say that 8am classes are character building. Hey, I had an 7:30am class my senior year and look how I turned out! (It only hurts when I laugh!)</p>