Can't get into a mus ed program to save my life.

College Majors Music Major
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<p>I've been thinking a lot lately about college and what I want to do. I know that music education is a field I definitely want to get into, but thus far I've been unsuccessful in every attempt to get into a program. In 2010, I auditioned at Crane, Ithaca, and NYU and was rejected from each. This year I auditioned at Fredonia and Stony Brook. When I auditioned at Fredonia, I listed Mus Ed as my first choice program, and music business as my 2nd choice. I was accepted to the music business program, not the music ed one. </p>

<p>Obviously I still need more coaching. I've been taking lessons since the end of 2009 (admittedly, they have been sporadic due to my parents refusing to pay for lessons). I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong. Is it my teacher? I'd hate for that to be the reason since I really love my teacher. He's fantastic. I did talk to him about this, and he told me that he thinks I should drop out for a year, keep working at my job, take lessons from him, and then go on from there. I really don't want to do that for a few reasons, one being that I don't want to stay home another year, and two, my parents would raise hell if I dropped out for a year...</p>

<p>As of now I'm attending Fredonia as an education major and a music minor. I'm going to try to audition into a music program for Spring 2011 just so I'll have a music degree and then I'll get my master's in music education if I don't get into the BM Mus Ed. </p>

<p>I'm not looking for a cure-all response, just some advice. Any input at all is welcome.</p>

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<p>I gather that you want to be a music teacher?</p>

<p>My D is at a different SUNY than you are. She is studying education with a music concentration. It is not her goal to be a music teacher but rather to use music as a special ed teacher. At her school, only majors have to audition, not those who are taking a minor or a concentration. She did not choose to audition, which left her ineligible for a music department scholarship but let her in to the department as a concentration student.</p>

<p>Perhaps you might want to think about switching SUNYs. Your education courses are likely to transfer and you can find one that doesn’t require an audition for a minor or concentration. I personally think that’s a better idea than leaving school and taking lessons. </p>

<p>If you’re a voice student, are you active in campus singing groups because those will give you practice?</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Have you looked at any of the smaller and less competitive schools for music ed in NY? Buffalo State(Not UB), College of St Rose in Albany, Hartwick in Oneonta, Nazareth in Rochester, and Roberts Weslayan also in Rochester off the top of my head all have music ed programs. You could do a search through the College Board for music ed in NY. Also, Onondaga Community College and Schenectady County Community college have well regarded 2 year music programs with proven track records and articulation agreements with different music schools.</p>

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<p>How about this: Are you interested in teaching music at the elementary level? You might check to see if an elementary school teaching certification would allow you to teach music at the k-5 level in your state. Especially having a minor in music, it may be possible. Also, if you get your elementary classroom certification/music minor, there may be schools/districts that would be very interested in a teacher who incorporates music in the elementary classroom, perhaps eventually leading to teaching music only? </p>

<p>Best wishes to you. Remember that the universe may be trying to point you towards an opportunity that you don’t as yet understand. By “closing” the doors that you so desperately want to enter, you may be shown a window that is even better for you. So keep singing, studying, and asking questions. You will find your way, it just might not be the direction you currently imagine for yourself.</p>

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<p>Only having taking music lesson sporadically for just over one year does not put you in a favorable place to convince folks that music is your life. Did you really audition after only a couple month’s worth of lessons? Wow, that’s gutsy.</p>

<p>But I think that’s what your teacher is trying to tell you – that you are up against kids who’ve been immersed in music for almost as long as they’ve been alive. They can make a much stronger case for “needing” music, and they are nabbing the limited slots. I actually think what you are doing is a great plan - get the education degree, get a minor in music so you can keep studying it and improving, and then go for a certification or master’s degree in the specific field you want to teach.</p>

<p>I don’t think at this point you should switch schools. I may have you mixed up with someone else, but I’m thinking you are the one who attended a CC last year, and transferred this year? I think that if you switch again - majors, schools, instruments, whatever - you may come across as “still exploring” (or worse, ADD or uncommitted) and therefore schools may be less willing to take a chance on you. You need to show them some persistence and stability. And of course, musical talent and ability.</p>

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<p>It would help to know what you wanted to teach. Grade Level, instruments, etc.</p>

<p>I’m thinking that the program you are in now, an Ed major/music minor might would qualify you to teach music, at least on the elementary level, or to teach music appreciation classes anywhere. Although it may not “cut it” as a orchistra teacher or band director.</p>

<p>And like some of the other posters mentioned, 1 year of lessons probably isn’t enough for a BM. My son took music classes in school for 6 years and private lessons for about 4 years and he is considered a “late starter”</p>

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<p>Do you know why the schools rejected you for music ed? Was a weak audition the reason? (Then obviously you need to work on your skills as a musician.) Or were there other factors? (school grades, interview, resume . . .?) If you don’t know the specific reason for rejection, it might be helpful to contact the school–I believe that some schools will give you a candid response. </p>

<p>You may want to get an opinion other than your teacher’s. Book lesson with a teacher at one of the schools to which you applied and specifically ask how close you are to having what it takes to get accepted and what you need to do to get there.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

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<p>@Joan52 - at this point, I would rather not switch schools again. I’m finally getting out of CC, and I think a third switch would just look plain bad. :\ Yes I am a voice student and I am active in campus choirs.</p>

<p>@Momofbassist - again, I would rather not transfer again if I can help it. ):</p>

<p>@sopranomom92 - I did think about doing elementary, but I’m not sure it’s for me. I would much rather teach high school. Thanks for the words of wisdom though!</p>

<p>@binx - yeah, I know that it was a risk auditioning after only having lessons for such a short amount of time. As for convincing them that music is my life, I did make it known that I’ve been involved in music since 2nd grade when I started playing violin. The problem is that between 8th and 9th grade, my family moved to a district without a string program, so I had to start all over on voice.</p>

<p>@violindad - I’m not sure. I just emailed Fredonia after reading your post and asked if I could get feedback. We’ll see what they say. I really don’t think it was grades or my resume… and there was no interview at Fredonia. I’ll take up your advice on getting a second opinion once I get up to Fredonia in August.</p>

<p>I did find an alternative certification pathway, though. Basically, I get my education degree, get certified to teach in NYS, then use my 30 credits from the music minor to apply for a second certification. I’m just afraid that if I go down that path, I won’t get hired. I won’t be able to stand a chance against other applicants. Who would you rather hire? The guy with a music minor + alternative certification or the person with a bachelor of music degree in music education…</p>

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<p>Actually, there are plenty of schools looking for renaissance men (or women) who can do more than one thing, especially smaller schools that can’t support a full-time music program. What subject will your main teaching certificate be in?</p>

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<p>Good administrators who do the hiring know that a successful music educator is characterized more by their personality (i.e. energy level, passion for music, organizational abilities, abilities to motivate and inspire in positive ways) than by their paper qualifications. </p>

<p>While band/orchestra teachers certainly need lots of methods courses and paper qualifications in addition to the personality attributes, for choral, the courses are not as essential, and I assume that you are looking at being a high school choral teacher. If you want to do band/orchestra, then I think that you are correct: it would probably be more difficult to obtain a band/orchestra position with the music minor + alternative certification.</p>

<p>Many choral teachers that I know teacher an additional subject, so binx’s advice concerning being a renaissance person is sound.</p>

<p>I don’t know what sort of choice you have within your 30-hour music minor, but whenever possible choose courses that are more applicable to music ed rather than just the usual music theory, music history, ear training etc…</p>

<p>In addition to your college choirs, see if there are any community music ensembles that you could get involved with (particularly if there is a chance of getting some sort of leadership role–for example, sectional leader or back-up conductor). </p>

<p>As well, in the last couple of years of your degree, contact the music teachers at local schools to see if you could assist them in any way on a volunteer basis. While your college studies will probably keep you quite busy, sometimes music teachers need extra help for single-time events. For example: out-of-town trips on weekends; during a workshop, competition, or retreat; or during a concert evening (e.g. while the teacher is onstage conducting, you warm up an ensemble or you are backstage shushing excited students . . .). Making these sorts of connections are invaluable for getting jobs.</p>

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<p>In addition to what violin dad said (which was great), you could possibly see if you could do your student teaching in a choral class.</p>

<p>And a 30 hour minor is fairly substantial as far a minors go. A lot of the minors that I have looked at are more like 18-22 hours. In our area, most athletic coaches majored in PE but yet the classes they teach are in their minor (mostly social studies). As long as you can teach, sing, and play piano, I would think that a Bachelors degree in education with a 30 hour minor in music would be fine to teach chorus. </p>

<p>It’s also not impossible that you could enter some type of masters in music ed program after you graduate.</p>

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<p>You all have no idea how big the sigh of relief I just made was.</p>

<p>@binx - my main certification will be 9-12 social studies. I believe my program might have the 7-8 extension built in, but I’m not 100% sure.</p>

<p>@violindad - indeed I want to teach high school choral, not band/orchestra. I guess I’m just so used to the New York stigma that says you HAVE to go to Ithaca/Crane/Fredonia to be marketable that I overlooked other situations. I’m glad you’ve pointed this out. </p>

<p>The music minor program involves: Music Theory I & II, Aural Skills I & II, Music History I & II, four semesters of group applied music, four semesters of ensembles, 2 300-level courses in music theory/history/education, 2 400-level courses in music theory/history/education. This all totals at around 32 credits. </p>

<p>I was looking at the B.Ed. Childhood Education with a Music emphasis, and these are the courses: Music Theory I & II, Aural Skills I & II, Music Play & Self (description below), Directed Studies I & II (description below), Music History I & II, 2 300 or 400-level music history courses, Piano I & II & III. </p>

<p>Music Play & Self - A course primarily for students with little or no previous musical knowledge or skill. Examines the relationships among music, play and self, especially with regard to children. Emphasizes activity, creativity and personal expression.</p>

<p>Directed Studies I & II - Directed Studies in music. Designed exclusively for Childhood Education majors with a concentration in music. Includes voice proficiency, vocal instruction, observation of elementary music classrooms, and conducting.</p>

<p>I’m wondering if the Childhood Education might be the route to go just for the music concentration alone. Of course there are around 60 other credits, but, from a quick glance, around 80% of the credits from Childhood Education and Social Studies Adolescence overlap…</p>

<p>@imagep - I’ll definitely look into getting into a high school chorus for an education/student teaching experience. I’ll get on that moreso next semester though, since this semester’s student teaching is already wrapping up.</p>

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<p>When I read posts like these it always reminds me of the first weeks of American Idol with people that think they can sing and swear their family and friends love their musical ability. Some people have no musical ability and finding out early and heading off in a better direction sooner rather than later is often kind advice rather than putting failure off.</p>

<p>Another point about what you said, I am seeing high schools not only eliminate or reduce music programs and therefore music teachers, they are also combining the voice and instrument programs and hiring someone who can teach both.</p>

<p>If you love music why not believe what all those auditioning you are telling you and go with the music business program? There are more than enough music teachers out there with limited ability doing a poor job.</p>

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<p>@Trumpet57 - I’m acually quite offended that you would compare me to those blabbering morons on American Idol. My musical ability is quite present. In high school, I was a part of chamber ensembles for three years. I went to NYSSMA for voice three times and receieved a 98 each time. I was a part of local choirs and all-county honors choirs in high school. I’m also in my college’s chamber ensemble. I realize these things don’t count for TOO much, but I think they effectively rule out the “I’m fooling myself into thinking I can sing” scenario. </p>

<p>Yes, I’m very aware of the current crisis the arts is facing in public schools. That’s exactly why I’m getting a social studies teaching certification as well. Hopefully it’ll all blow over soon.</p>

<p>I’m not going to go into a music business program with the intention of earing a music business degree. Yes, I love music, but even more important is the fact that I love TEACHING music. </p>

<p>I appreciate your concern but I think grouping me with teachers who have “limited ability” was a little unnecessary.</p>

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<p>riku, your right, that remark was a little uncalled for, now not to defend Trumpet57, but you failed to provide enough information about yourself and your plans for anyone to realize your degree of accomplishment. I think that Trumpet was maybe assuming you are like the guy who doesn’t play any instruments (and probably can’t read music) but wants to be a conductor because he has “good taste in music”. when you explain things like you did in your last post, it makes your situation a little more understandable.</p>

<p>My son has a wide and varied interest in music, he will be a music ed major this fall, he would be pefectly happy being a band director, but he also would like to explore performance and composition and basically everything else that could lead to a career in music. At this point, he could see a career in something other than teaching, but he can’t see a career that doesn’t involve music, so if he finds out that music ed isn’t right for him, he will be OK with going into another music field, even if it’s not his first choice at this point. </p>

<p>If I am getting you right, you sound like the opposit. You’r first choice is a career in teaching music, but if for whatever reason that doesn’t work out, you can’t envision yourself in a career that doesn’t involve teaching.</p>

<p>I’ve seen some posts totally bashing people for having a “backup plan”, like majoring in music ed instead of pursuing a performance major. I don’t understand why people do that. Everyone should have a backup plan, most people change majors at least once in college, and many people never go into the field they studied in college (like me).</p>

<p>You definately sound like someone who needs to be teaching. Do whatever you have to do to make that happen, in whatever field you thing you will be happiest with, music or not. You sound to me to be on the right track to teach chorus, but I think the social studies teaching certificate as a backup/alternate plan makes a lot of sense.</p>

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<p>I am sorry I offended you. However, as has been said your initial post lead me into thinking as I did. If you are not accepted into a top level conservatory or major college program for performance, then maybe the competition is too tough and you might still be very good. If you can not get into a second tier or lower program as an education major there is a major problem either in your record or your ability. These auditioners know talent and understand what it takes to be a good teacher. </p>

<p>As I said, sorry if your initial post caused me to think you were fooling yourself. But there is a good reason you were not accepted and maybe you need to find out why. As far as high school accomplishments, I have seen top marks go to people that barely could play a note. Then again it may not be your talent level that caused the rejections.</p>

<p>I was just suggesting you make a realistic evaluation of your situation and not be clouded by what others that like you may have said. The competition at any good school is tough and there are far too many kids with dreams of performing or teaching not willing face reality.</p>

<p>Many of those rejected on American Idol that get laughed at were the best singer in their high school. Some performed in honors programs at regional and state level, even college level. </p>

<p>I did not want to diminish your dream of teaching high school chorus. I wish you nothing but success in finding a school that will take you and a school that will employ you.</p>

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<p>That’s very true. Music is amazingly competitive. Really just as competitive as athletics, and way more competitive than majors like engineering that most of us think are so difficult. In no other major are you expected to have as much experiance or practice or skill (before you even enroll) as in music.</p>

<p>During my son’s first college audition we found out that school only wanted four students for his particular instrument. Even the largest school he applied at (30,000 students) was only accepting ten. I was a business major in college, there were a zillion business majors, and none of us ever had to audition or prove anything to anyone other than to make decent grades.</p>

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<p>I’ll agree with imagep. When son was visiting Fredonia, the orchestra director said that he found the quality of music education in American schools frustrating. With practically every other major, you can take the college prep curriculum earn good grades and expect to be admitted into your chosen major without any private instruction. (Yes, you can hire private tutors, etc.) But as riku92 is finding out, even though you have been participating in high school music for years, it is very difficult to be accepted into a music school without private instruction and it had better be with a good private teacher. So, riku92, definitely check with the music dept at Fredonia and see where they think you need improvement and hopefully, while you are working with a voice teacher at Fredonia this Fall, you’ll be able to make the adjustments necessary to successfully audition for the music ed program.
Also, riku92, son did do an Allstate level 6 vocal NYSSMA last year without any private instruction because the chorus teacher gave extra points if you signed up and went through with it. He did okay (95) but, he does have a much improved opinion of vocalists since he lost points for not showing the proper facial expression and breathing. These are things String players don’t need to worry. (Sure you don’t want to go back to violin?)</p>

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<p>I think that you need to have good private instruction, and ask them to give you a blunt opinion of your technique, musicianship, and expression. Choral directors need to be an accomplished leader and have good solo voices too. Bad vocal technique kills young voices too early. Also, I don’t want to seem negative, but if you were accepted as an education major, academics probably aren’t the issue. Music majors will be accepted with a slightly lower grade than other student. I say this to you not to be insulting, but just as a concerned vocalist that would like future singers to get a quality education. Though, I do think that it would be an asset to have a social studies degree and a music minor, school that are supportive of the arts and great music education programs are going to look for someone with a BM, simply because they know they are hiring someone that will be incredibly knowledgable by having more classes approx. 3/4 of their education. I hope I didnt seem so negative, I just am concerned. Please talk to your voice teacher, they should give you honest guidence</p>

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<p>The skills needed for choral singing and the skills needed for solo singing are quite different. Most of the vocal performance majors I know did not participate in choir in high school. My D was in an audition based chorus outside of school but quit before her senior year because the struggle to blend was doing more harm than good. No matter how well you do in high school choral competitions, you may not be at all prepared for vocal performance or music ed auditions. The technique just might not be there.</p>