CAP21 Ending? A Message from Dean Campbell to CAP21 Admitted Students

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>I REALLY feel sorry for the kids coming in in the fall, who probably are wishing that they had known about this (or at least about the possibility) a few months ago when their kids had all their choices in front of them and were deciding where to go. I am not saying that they wouldn’t have chosen NYU anyway, but it would have been valuable to have this information going into the decision-making process. </p>

<p>Like MTGrlsmom, I am not impressed with the way this is being handled.</p>

<p>I have no doubts that Tisch Drama would put together a very good musical theater studio. That’s not in question. </p>

<p>What is in question for us is that my daughter, like MTGrlsmom’s, chose NYU FOR CAP and now their ability to continue on in CAP is a big ???.</p>

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<p>If anyone contacts Patricia Decker or Liz Bradley and finds out some answers to these valid questions, please try to share them here.</p>

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<p>Alwaysamom - I have left a message for Liz Bradley, and my daughter has an email in the works. I spoke with Frank Ventura. So to answer your question, we did follow up and went directly to the “horse’s mouth” so to speak.</p>

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<p>I also communicated directly with Frank Ventura immediately upon receiving the letter and am crafting an email to Elizabeth Bradley. My D is away at a rural summer stock job and does not have regular Internet access, so she can’t send an email to anyone right now.</p>

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<p>One of my coaching colleagues spoke directly to Patricia Decker today and she (Patricia) was emphatic that the deal IS done, even though CAP says it’s not. She also emphasized very emphatically, when asked in Tisch kids would still be able to get a BFA in MT, that the NYU degree for CAP kids has always been a BFA in Drama with an MT concentration (which was news to many of us). I, too, am worried for all of our current and incoming students who chose Tisch and hope all turns out well for them!</p>

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<p>All of Tisch studios, including CAP21 have ALWAYS conferred the degree of BFA Drama (whether you study MT, Acting, Directing, Tech). CAP21 is MT training (akin to BFA in MT programs) but the actual degree on the diploma and resume is BFA Drama (see resumes of graduates). Nothing new there. There is also no degree in BFA Acting either. Everyone from all 8 studios earns a BFA Drama. </p>

<p>I think change is hard and the timing is difficult for incoming freshmen or current CAP students but let’s remember that it is not like those attending Tisch cannot train in MT for four years. I don’t know how many years they will keep the current CAP kids in CAP (just for the two years of primary studio or the usual 3 1/2 years) but if they only stay for two years of primary studio, they should be able to do advanced studio in the new MT studio that is run by Tisch. The degree is from TISCH, not from CAP21. CAP21 is merely the studio you train in. Many of your theater courses (all the Theater Studies ones) are in Tisch, not CAP21. For example, my D’s resume has on it for her degree:</p>

<p>NYU Tisch School of the Arts, BFA Drama 2009: CAP21 & Experimental Theatre Wing</p>

<p>I think there is a lot that needs clarification but at the very least, anyone in Tisch now for MT or entering for MT, can still study MT at Tisch all four years. It is not as if they have to switch to Acting. It so happens, however, about half the CAP class CHOOSES to switch studios after two or three years for a different advanced studio, one of the beauties of attending Tisch and the options it affords. </p>

<p>Again, without knowing the details yet, I think a good solution is to keep the CAP kids in CAP who want to stay for their remaining years and phase in the new MT studio with the entering class of 2010 but I’d have to hear what they have planned to really have an opinion and so I hope that information is forthcoming soon!</p>

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<p>Is this year’s summer program going to be CAP 21 training? Does anyone know if the pre-college program is being affected by this change?</p>

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<p>It should not be affected because even the college students are doing CAP this coming year too.</p>

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<p>Just catching up …</p>

<p>-My daughter is going into the final semester’s industry next year and my biggest concern is if the teachers, who have been excellant so far, will be looking for other work since their security has now been shaken after the NYU pull-out.</p>

<p>-I suppose it is likely that most of the teachers will stay this next year, but the other grades will be even more at risk of attrition.</p>

<p>-Hopefully Cap21 will not allign themselves with a less reputable college in the future to water down the reputation of the NYU/Tisch/CAP21 allumni.</p>

<p>In the end though, getting good roles and work matters mostly about talent, matching your look, and mostly a lot of luck. </p>

<p>Soosivet- I remember during NYU auditions (way back when), the Tisch admissions people told all the students “We know most of you want to get into CAP21, but you must pick a second and 3rd choice studio because not everyone can get into MT.” That is why I thought they got so many more freshman applications in CAP than the other studios. That is why I assumed this could be about expanding the MT admission number.</p>

<p>Once in CAP some of them wanted to explore other acting studios but it seemed like the freshman desire was quite strong fro MT at the high school level.</p>

<p>Maybe it just felt that way because I was hanging out on THIS college confidential MT website!</p>

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<p>Drexel, I don’t imagine that CAP teachers will feel their own security is threatened. They work for CAP, which has just in fact expanded to include a two year professional certificate program.</p>

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<p>drexel - I don’t think that the CAP21 faculty is all that “shaken up”. This really has been in the works for quite some time, and I feel that CAP21 starting their own two year conservatory this fall will guarantee a job for plenty of teachers. It is also likely that CAP21 will seek new alliances with other colleges. I don’t necessarily think that this will make a BFA in Drama from NYU less desirable at all, as Tisch will continue to be well respected.</p>

<p>FWIW, I also remember being told that something like 1200 out of the 2000 who auditioned for Tisch last year specified CAP21 as their first choice studio, and so I don’t think that your idea of Tisch wanting to expand was that far out. However, I doubt that they actually have the internal infrastructure in place to do so. As we all know it “takes a village of teachers” to teach MT at a significant level, especially if you want to offer leveled classes, and teach in smaller size groups. It will be interesting to see how Tisch will tackle this. </p>

<p>CoachC - knowing what a “walking MT encyclopedia” you are :), I am actually surprised to hear that you were not aware that the BFA at Tisch, even for CAP21, was/is a BFA in Drama. My D was well aware of this when she selected NYU. However, she selected NYU because of its alliance with CAP21, as she felt that CAP21 offered superior conservatory type training in MT (alongside its widely recognized high academic standards). In spite of all the changes, she will be able to complete her core training with CAP21, and then follow along the path that she had in mind to begin with, so no major “shake up” for her per se.</p>

<p>That said, I just don’t feel that it is right to change the characteristics of a program “mid stream”. It would have made much more sense to let current (included accepted incoming) students finish the program that they selected to begin with, a.k.a NYU/Tisch/CAP21, not NYU/Tisch/Something Musical Theatre. </p>

<p>IMO, it would have been much more elegant if dramatic changes to a program, that has been in place for years, would have been properly announced ahead of time to say the Class of 2014, who then in turn would have been in a position to make an informed decision if they wanted to audition for/be part of this new Tisch MT Program.</p>

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<p>drexel, I wouldn’t spend too much time worrying about the possibility of CAP21 aligning itself with another school and ‘watering down the reputation of alumni’. Your D will have a BFA in Drama from NYU/Tisch when she graduates, not from CAP21.</p>

<p>What you were told at the audition info session was probably a reflection of the fact that most of the auditionees in that audition block were kids auditioning for musical theatre so it’s not unusual that they would have explained about indicating other studio choices.</p>

<p>I understand how worrisome this news is but it’s probably best to take a deep breath and see what information comes from your contact with Patricia Decker and Liz Bradley, as they are likely to have more detailed information about how all of this will play out.</p>

<p>mtgrlsmom, I agree that that would have been the ideal way to transition but we don’t know the reasons for the changes, or who instigated them. My guess is that there were probably issues on both sides of this business arrangement, and it’s unlikely that such a longer process of transition was possible. As it is, it will be two years, which I’m guessing was agreed to after much negotiation, because you’re right, this has been coming for a while.</p>

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<p>could someone please post a copy of the e-mail sent to current students? I wonder what it says differently</p>

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<p>I agree that the faculty at CAP21 won’t be shook up. CAP21 runs several programs besides the NYU one. In fact, starting this fall, they will be offering a two year Professional MT Certificate program. I recall telling my D about that new program and she wondered how they would have room at the studio for another program and so well, eventually they will now. They also have a weekend high school program, a summer pre-college program and a summer professional program. As well, this transition doesn’t go into place for at least two years and so it is not as if this change affects the faculty or students right away. At some point, when a college changes programs, it affects some people. Also, some faculty at CAP21 do not simply teach at CAP21 but have other jobs in the industry. </p>

<p>I agree with AlwaysAMom, that one might get the feeling that everyone is auditioning for CAP because of their experience on their audition day (or reading this forum). But it is more like half of those who audition want CAP as a first choice, not the majority. And in the end, the majority of students in Tisch are studying in studios other than CAP21. </p>

<p>I think it would be ideal to allow all current and incoming CAP kids to finish their program out at CAP and have all new classes go into the new MT studio. But if the incoming class just does CAP for two years of primary studio, they will still have a MT studio for their remaining years. It is not like Tisch is doing away with MT! The next cycle of auditionees will know before applying that there is a new MT studio in place for their class.</p>

<p>Please remember that the DEGREE is from Tisch, not CAP21 and Tisch itself has a reputation. CAP21 does too and I’m sure those who have CAP on their resumes will be just fine. But the degree on the resume is still, and has always been, NYU/Tisch BFA in Drama. </p>

<p>Drexel, most kids, including my own D, who enter CAP, think they will stay in CAP all four years. If you had asked me when she entered if she would ever switch studios, I would have said, “no way.” I was wrong. She, along with about half of her class, have studied at another studio besides CAP21. These are kids intending to do MT, as is her field of interest. And in some other studios, they continue to sing and dance and be in musicals (she did all that and private voice as well). Some of these kids, along with herself, who had all studied at CAP21, were in the Tisch MT Industry Showcase (that is not the same as the CAP21 showcase). </p>

<p>If CAP aligns itself with another college at some point, that doesn’t “water down” the value of the degree that the Tisch kids received as the degree is from NYU/Tisch, not CAP, and it has a reputation all its own. CAP has a reputation in itself and I know that I am not concerned about the value of my D’s degree on her resume at all. </p>

<p>My D’s most recent studio, ETW, is an internal studio run by Tisch, unlike CAP21. There have been some benefits that the faculty are all Tisch faculty (let alone that the studio is right in the Tisch building!). </p>

<p>I’d have to wait and see to learn more specifics about what the new arrangements are for MT but I do have a lot of faith in Dean Campbell and Tisch to provide a terrific MT program.</p>

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<p>Like MTGrlmom’s D, mine also was well aware (as was I) that my D’s degree upon graduating from NYU would be a BFA in drama. As far as I know, it’s been that way all along.</p>

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<p>This is only heresay but I heard all the studios will be fazed out in the next ten years. NYU will be more like CMU with a cut system. Again this is only heresay but its a shame because what made NYU special was the studio system.</p>

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<p>CMU doesn’t have a cut system - they eliminated it in the mid-90’s. Do you mean that NYU will be like CMU plus having a cut system? Just wanting to clarify - even if it’s speculative, it’s important info.</p>

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<p>Thats what I heard. But remember I do not have the facts to back it up. This is all heresay. But isn’t the new Dean from CMU and when she was there did they not have a cut system?</p>

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<p>Liz Bradley came from CMU, but they didn’t have a cut system at all during her tenure.</p>

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<p>Agreed…CMU doesn’t have a cut system and hasn’t in a while and I can’t imagine Tisch ever having one either. </p>

<p>I don’t know the reasons for the changes with these two studios but it is understandable to me that Tisch may wish to have more control over the training program, its faculty and so on like it does with its two current internal studios. Also, I am sure there are financial issues involved and this allows more control over that aspect too. That is all speculation, however.</p>