Career path for high-stats undecided kid: yay or nay on engineering?

Parents Forum
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Hi all! I’m looking for some career advice and collective wisdom from all you smart, accomplished CC parents for S23.

He’s an tippy-top student: GPA 3.98/4.7, ranked 2nd/~300, multiple APs and all 4s and 5s so far from freshman and sophomore year, SAT just came back yesterday at 1530 (780V, 750M).

We’re trying to build his college list, which is challenging because he’s 16 and has zero clue what he might want to do. Which is generally fine: which 16 year old really does?

The problem is that he thinks he wants a small LAC so that he can continue his sport (he’s definitely D3 rather than D1 material), but also has some vague idea that he might want to be an engineer, which then means a bigger school. (Yeah, I know about the 3:2 programs, but I also know that almost nobody does them: who wants to leave their senior year, especially as an athlete? And he’s not interested in the smaller, engineering-focused schools like Rose-Hulman or Colorado School of Mines. Not his people).

He has zero experience in engineering (no robotics program at his school). He thinks he might like it mainly because his favorite class this year is physics, although his second favorite is AP Art History, which says lots about him. He’s the ultimate generalist rather than a spiky STEM kid (see verbal SAT score), and is also very social and outgoing.

So, here are my questions for those of you who are engineers (or work or live with one):

Where do you see the future of engineering for the next generation? In a global economy, won’t most of the jobs eventually get outsourced to India? Finally, would you recommend it as a career for your own kid? (I realize that I’m lumping all kinds of engineering together here. If you think that one particular kind has stronger future career prospects, let me know.)

I think that he could be part of the Green Revolution and do good as well as doing well, but is engineering the best path to that? So many questions! TIA

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Is he more interested in studying the natural universe (suggests science) or solving design problems using principles from science (suggests engineering)?

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Family member here is a successful electrical engineer specializing in power. Frankly his work can’t be outsourced. It involves design and building of new, and Delong with infrastructure work on existing places.

That being said…anyone who might be thinking about engineering should have a shadow time with a couple of engineers who do different kinds of things. And a candid discussion about how these engineers got to where they are now.

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Engineering is so varied and does so many things. There are so many types of engineers and many will never be outsourced. I’m electrical (biomedical specialization) with a concurrent Math degree and an MBA. My work started in electrical design in oil/gas industry (hated the industry) to operations work in aerospace (love it and it will not be outsourced ever) which uses people skills, verbal skills and engineering knowledge but not design. I think if I had a child who was excellent in math/science I would encourage engineering because there are so many paths you can choose. I would also say they need to be very open to learning a good bit of CS type info to be truly competitive going into the future. I agree though try to shadow for a day or two several different types of engineers to see what they do and if he can see himself doing it. My own son couldn’t see it and felt those he would be working with weren’t his people. He chose vet med instead. (He was more science, less math though). So much out there to explore.

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If he’s unsure of which path he wants to take why can’t he decide once he starts taking classes?
I would leave the decision up to him.

He’s the one that has to take the classes. He’s the one that has to decide what he loves.

Edited to add: In our family of five we have three different engineers. Four of our five people had a natural affinity for math and science. It came to them so easily. Four out of the five same people ended up in careers involving math and science.
When they started their college careers, they had an inkling of what they might want to do, but everyone changed majors. The fact that they ended up as engineers, and are strong in their fields, had a lot to do with what they liked studying in high school.

As for outsourcing engineering, it would be extremely difficult in their fields. They are committed to government contracts and US corporate business interests (R & D).

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My daughter (D22) was very unsure until near the end of junior year of high school. She has had varied interests, loving language & literature, history, and science & math. In the end, she decided she wanted to major in Computer Science but with broad interests in life and social sciences. There are many paths and options and multidisciplinary work along with STEM can be very rewarding.

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My son wanted a “typical college experience” and had no interest in schools like Caltech or MIT. He ended up at a medium sized school because he liked the facilities and curricula, but there are LOTS of smaller schools, mostly known as LACs that also offer engineering. Lehigh, Bucknell and Lafayette are the classic examples, but they’re all over the place.

The biggest thing is that he really needs to like math and physics, not just tolerate or survive them. Beyond that, as @momocarly said, there are so many things one can do with an engineering degree, especially ME, that the sky is the limit.

Of course, that’s assuming he even wants to do applied science. He might want to do straight physics. That opens up all sorts of great small schools like Amherst, etc.

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My POV – Engineering is a great major as it teaches one to solve problems and to think in a very data-driven, logical way. That skill can be applied across all professions and jobs in the future. Although a lot of people are stating that engineering jobs will never be outsourced, I am not as confident. But I believe there will always be jobs for people who can problem-solve and think like an engineer.

Almost all of my friends who majored in Engineering in college did not become engineers. I know that a lot do, but in my case, almost none did. And they are super successful (from a financial perspective) - Venture Capital Heads, CMO for one of the largest sporting apparal companies, CEO for a Healthcare company, McKinsey Consulting Partner, CEO for a public educational company, etc.

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(Civil engineer here for almost 30 years)

Does your son have any of the following traits:

  1. Strong in math and science
  2. A tinkerer who likes hands on stuff. They always seem to be building things in the basement or is the first person you call if something breaks, despite them being in elementary school.
  3. is a problem solver. This is different from
    #2 as it doesn’t have to be hands on. For example, if someone complains about something, do they automatically go into fix it more seeing how they can help?

Engineers don’t have to have all of these traits, but the more the better. I am not #2 at all, but my brother (ME & EE) most definitely is. He’s the one my mom took to school one summer when they both networked the entire school themselves. He was 8.

If your son has any of these traits and thinks he might want to be an engineer, I’d encourage him to apply. It’s much easier to transfer into something else than it is to transfer into engineering later. My program (VA Tech) had all freshmen as general engineering. One of the freshmen courses took a look at all different engineering disciplines. The downside I suppose is that you had to apply to your top 3 choices. You weren’t guaranteed your top choice, though I don’t see that being a problem for your son. I can’t recall anyone not getting their top choice.

I also agree that engineers are employable in many areas. Most non engineers have no idea what engineers do. They just know they are smart.

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There are 4-year. engineering programs at LACs. W&L, Swarthmore, Lafayette, Bucknell and more.

I’d suggest a summer session…my son attended the STEP program….at Purdue. One week. It cemented his interest.

Rose Hulman has the Catapult program. Michigan had a three week Physics of Rollercoasters…not sure if they still do.

But a little exploration in summer can help him even see if engineering interests him.

I’m sure there loads of programs out there in different disciplines.

Good luck.

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My son was interested in engineering and CS based on his interest in physics and math as well his success in these classes. He did a mentorship with ACE (Architecture, Construction, Engineering) Mentor Program that he enjoyed although he was disappointed that architecture and engineering were generally separate. Many cities offer this program. His high school also has a science and technology class that involves building something to complete a task. In addition, he took the YouScience aptitude and interest test and many of the suggested options were in engineering. YouScience isn’t expensive and it was suggested to me by a psychology PhD who does factors analysis for a software company.

When it came to applying to college, he applied primarily to schools with engineering programs although he also applied to a few smaller schools where he would plan to major in CS and possibly do a 3/2 engineering degree or engineering masters if he decided to go that direction. All that said, he is a junior in a combined computer engineering and CS major at Northeastern. He’ll be starting an engineering coop in January.

We did visit Swarthmore and speak with the engineering department chair. My son said he liked it more than he thought he would but still didn’t apply because he wanted a bigger school. I think he would’ve liked Swarthmore but it is very difficult to get into even for very strong students.

Most schools require separate admission to the engineering college within the university which complicates the process for undecided students. Your son can apply to engineering program and also apply D3 schools with his sport. Another options is to continue with his sport at the club level at a D1 school. Another downside of engineering majors is that there isn’t a lot of slack in your schedule to take other subjects you might be interested in. I think Swarthmore is a good school for allowing additional classes. Northeastern also allows students to easily switch majors including moves into and out of engineering. However, moving into engineering may necessitate and extra semester or two to meet all the requirements.

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If your son is interested in a D3 with engineering, he could take a look at Tufts. It sounds like it could check a lot of his boxes and if engineering doesn’t end up being his thing they have lots of strong programs.

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This is the only point I’d disagree with.

My son (BS/MS ME) was an advanced lego builder as a youngster, but he had no experience, confidence or desire to work on cars or things around the house. He certainly does now though. Those skills and confidence were trained.

The students who come in as primary tinkerers without the math and physics love and driven curiosity are the ones who don’t tend to make it out as engineers.

It’s a good school in a good location. You’d need your financial ducks in a row though. They don’t give merit aid.

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VT has automatic admission to first choice engineering major if the first year general engineering student has a 3.0 college GPA. Otherwise, it is competitive admission to majors.

Some other schools have similar first year engineering programs, but the automatic admission GPA varies:

  • 2.0: Michigan, Pittsburgh
  • 3.2: Minnesota, Purdue
  • 3.75: Texas A&M
  • varies by major: Ohio State, Penn State
  • no auto-admit GPA: NCSU
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Thanks so much to who have replied for your great questions and collective wisdom. I knew you all would have great advice. I’m glad to hear that the general consensus is that most engineering can’t/won’t be ever be completely outsourced oversees.

Also good to learn that so many LACs have engineering: I always thought that besides the Rose Hulmans etc, only big schools had engineering. We’ll start looking more into LACs with engineering. One wrinkle is that he will would need at least some merit $ at any of the privates. We are full pay but not willing to pay >80K/year: his total college budget is around 200K. So no Swat or Tufts.

To answer a few questions:

@ucbalumnus : I just don’t that HE knows yet if he’s interested in the just studying (pure science) vs solving design problems (more engineering). He likes both.

@auntbea : he can’t just decide on a major after he starts taking classes if he attends a school that doesn’t even have engineering. (As I stated originally, I wouldn’t want him to have to leave his LAC his senior year for a 3/2 program).

@ClassicMom98 :

  1. Strong in math and science? Yes
  2. Hands-on tinkerer? Not really now, although he was when he was younger and had more free time. He liked to take things apart (although not necessarily put them back together :laughing:)
  3. Problem solver? Strong YES. He’s our family tech support guy despite no training in CS because he jumps right in and problem solves. (He hasn’t ruled out CS, either, but that he could do from almost any LAC, so that won’t dictate his original college choices).

@ultimom: Agreed, we’ll start looking for engineering exposure/experience for him for this summer. In the meantime I’ll have him do the YouScience aptitude test and report back to the hive. And yes, I’ve gently suggested that he could continue his sport at the club level at our state flagship, which has a fabulous engineering program (and of course at the fraction of the cost of the privates), but he doesn’t want to hear that, at least not yet.

I predict a long, winding path to his final college choice. So, stay tuned!

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I may be in the minority, but I see these camps as fun, but not very instructive in letting a student know what engineers really do. Engineering is so cumulative that it takes until late 3rd year or even 4th year for engineering students to have the foundation to actually understand what they’ll really be doing themselves. If your son never gets access to one of these camps, be reassured, most engineering students don’t, and they turn out just fine.

It’s also important to know that an engineering student may be at a LAC, but that doesn’t mean they will do all the things the LA students do, or take any more arts, history, and social sciences than they would if they attended a traditional engineering program. The curricula are packed with tech classes and ABET requires they all take some general education courses.

Lastly, in addition to the schools I mentioned previously, you should look at Case Western. Our son had virtually the same background and stats as yours. We capped the max we’d pay at $200K. Case offered him $100k.

He ended up at Cal Poly BTW. It’s a medium sized school (about 20k), with about 1/3 of the student body in either in the college of engineering or architecture. It might be too large, but they have small classes, even early lectures. It would be under $200K. Forty hours of the 200 hr curriculum are general education. PM me if you have any questions. He graduated BS/MS ME (mechatronics) 3 years ago.

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3.0 should get you want you need if you are an engineering major in good standing with classes at VT. And general engineering/FYE college programs give a chance to explore engineering disciplines before committing to anything specific. Many engineering programs operate this way and if someone wants something different, there are many other options as well (admit automatically as freshman to a specific engineering discipline, CS, etc.). It’s all good.

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Lots of questions in the original post, so I’ll take a pass at several.

For the undecided student who may want engineering, I think the main thing is to ensure your options are open. I think that leads you to larger schools with many program/degree options.

The possibility of going into engineering for the undecided students is problematic because this is currently a highly sought-after area of study. That leaves you with two options. First look for schools that do not require you to declare a major in your application. Just make sure that major entry requirements are known as is their ability to offer the right classes. The other option, for schools that require students to declare a major, is to apply as an engineering type major. The reason for this is that it is typically very hard (and in some cases impossible) to switch from a non-engineering major to an engineering major.

I’m sure that engineering experience may influence college acceptances, but in general, academically accomplished students are accepted as well. One data point is our D22 who was just recently accepted into a very good engineering program. She has no engineering ECs at all. She does have very good academic stats. Another data point on this is from my son’s college, where majors were not declared in advance. He had a friend that intended to pursue a liberal arts type major but switched to CS after taking a very popular Intro to CS class that the majority of students take just to get a taste of CS. She graduated with a BSCS, added an MSCS and is now working happily at a start up in Silicon Valley.

Finally on outsourcing. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, I don’t think it’s an issue. I do hope that government regulators recognize that tech is one of the only remaining areas where we as a country have an edge. I hope it stays that way.

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Concern about offshore outsourcing is not unique to engineering. Because capital is largely more mobile than labor, do not be surprised if many types of jobs (particularly those that can be done working from home or anywhere) are targeted for offshore outsourcing by upper management looking to save some money that goes to paying employees.

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Here’s another perspective: consider approaching college as a potential physics major, let him grow into himself across a range of classes, and use summer internships to test interests from there. IF engineering emerges as a firm interest he can go do an MEng in the area he is interested in.* Fo example: M.Eng. Students | Cornell Engineering

The point is he is 16, and still interested in a lot of things, and he is not sure that he wants engineering. The gift of the US system is that he doesn’t have to commit right now. Have him look for colleges that want him so much that they will subsidize his education, so he won’t use up his college fund (saving it to do a graduate degree down the road)- and leave the door open.

*it is possible that there will be some additional pre-req coursework to do before starting the MEng, but a physics major is enough to get accepted.

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