Carleton and Macalester: How similar?

<p>Macalester is at the top of my son's list of colleges, because of its international relations major and what seems to be a focus on things international. We live nowhere near Minnesota, however, and trying to find any time in son's schedule to visit campus is proving difficult. Additionally, if he is going to go all the way to Minneapolis, it seems to make sense to visiit Carleton too, if for no other reason than to have another northern-school point of comparison. </p>

<p>Macalester does seem to play up the international angle, and Carleton is more rural and its stats are somewhat better, but otherwise how do the schools differ?</p>

<p>Macalester is in a fun neighborhood of St. Paul, with easy access to downtown Minneapolis or downtown St. Paul by public transportation.</p>

<p>^ Agreed. Mac is much more an urban experience. Nice campus in a good neighborhood in a very livable city, lots of restaurants, shops, etc right in the neighborhood and a very lively arts/music/cultural scene in the Twin Cities. Carleton is more a self-contained academic bubble in a small-town location, sharing the town with local rival St. Olaf so the town is very student-oriented, but most activity is on-campus. On the other hand, Northfield is only about a 40-min drive from the Twin Cities so it's not exactly in the middle of nowhere. Both are terrific schools, Carleton right there at the top of the heap of LACs nationally, Mac not far behind and rumor has it with the resources and ambition to move up. They're rivals for sure. Do visit both. Mac's international focus is not just puffery; they're pretty serious about it. Former UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan is a Mac alum, they're very proud of it and he comes back regularly; they'd like to produce more diplomats and international public servants.</p>

<p>My daughter just finished her sophomore year at Carleton and is an international relations major (just got back from an amazing study abroad program). Political science/international relations is the second most popular major at Carleton, and the faculty is outstanding. She also applied to Macalester, but preferred Carleton - slightly different student vibe, I think. I preferred the financial aid package at Carleton. If you are visiting one, you should definitely visit the other.</p>

<p>I applied and was accepted to both Mac and Carleton.</p>

<p>I liked Carleton's location better...Northfield epitomizes the term "college town." The campus was the prettiest of all I visited. I didn't want the distractions of a city during college. More people live off campus at Mac too, which bothered me.</p>

<p>There's a different vibe at the two schools too. I feel like Carleton students would be slightly more accepting of different political views then Mac students. And it would be probably be easier to be apathetic at Carleton. </p>

<p>The politics thing was how I decided that I liked Carleton more then Mac. I'm a liberal in every sense of the word, but I don't usually enjoy discussing politics. </p>

<p>I'm not going to Carleton of Mac next year, so my impressions are from the one day stay (and overnight at Carleton) I did at each last fall. </p>

<p>Oh, and if he likes Carleton and Mac he should check out Grinnell too. The mid west is AWESOME.</p>

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The politics thing was how I decided that I liked Carleton more then Mac. I'm a liberal in every sense of the word, but I don't usually enjoy discussing politics.

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<p>Interesting in light of the fact that Carleton is the school that gave us that liberal firebrand Sen. Paul Wellstone, who in his teaching days at Carleton would organize his students into doing organizing and political work with him. Many of his students went on to become professional political organizers and activists. I've always thought of Carleton as being a hotbed of progressive political activism. But I guess times change.</p>

<p>Definitely visit both. I think the "feel" of each campus is very different! I like both schools and I think your S will notice the differences right away. It's a matter of what feels right and what he is looking for. I don't think he could wrong with either choice. If you have the time stop in at St. Olaf...it is only 5 minutes across the river from Carleton. Great for comparing campus vibes!</p>

<p>I will also put in a plug for St Olaf, Carlton's neighbor in Northfield. Not as well known nationally as Carlton, but it is a CTLC school, and a favorite of mine & my D.</p>

<p>I overall agree with all the above posters.
My eldest daughter just finished her first year at Macalester, and the younger one just officially visited both Macalester and Carleton (older daughter never considered Carleton because she loves city life).
I consider both schools to be like sisters (or my 2 daughters)--there is really minimal difference in their stats and they are really part of the same family.
My eldest was very happy with Macalester--found the academics challenging but manageable, enjoyed her extracurriculars and community service job, had good mentoring from her professors, had a well-matched roommate and enjoyed meeting a wide variety of people.
Typical Macalester students are idealistic, interested in internationalism & diversity, open-minded, accepting (except of extremely conservative viewpoints), social, collaborative rather than competitive, want balance in their lives, not afraid to take risks or make a fool of themselves, more politically involved. Probably the 2 biggest plusses of Macalester are the internationalism & the location in the heart of the Twin Cities. Macalester has approximately 13% international students while Carleton is around 5%. Despite the urban location (in a really nice area of St Paul, just 10-15 min from the MSP airport), there is a definite campus spirit and campus life.
As a Minnesota resident, I've always thought of Carleton more for the sciences and Macalester more for the humanities. However, during our visit to Carleton, the admissions counselor told us that the 3 divisions--humanities, sciences, and social sciences each have about a third of the students. Carleton has fairly easy accessibility to the Twin Cities, though I don't get the sense that students there really take advantage of it. They seem to spend more time on campus. I get the sense that Carleton students are a bit quirkier and slightly more introverted (thought it may be that my extroverted daughter is at Mac and the "march to a different drumbeat" one is more attracted to Carleton)
There are many places where you can get a good academic education (and in that regard Mac, St Olaf, Carleton etc. are not so different), but a student needs to decide what milieu he or she would thrive in.
I would strongly urge you to visit both and see what is your best fit. If you have a little more time, Grinnell in IA would be worth a visit unless an extremely rural school is completely out of the question (Lots of cross-apps between the 3 schools) or a visit to St Olaf (a quality LAC in the same small town as Carleton, but very different student bodies).</p>

<p>I second Masquemom. DD1 and 2 visited both places. DD1 fell for Mac, DD2 for Carleton. I think it came down to location and the social aspect. DD1 is much more social</p>

<p>The last figure I saw was 7% of the students at Carleton are international.</p>

<p>Despite the obvious similarities in size, Twin City regional locations, and general liberal vibes, I've actually found the schools to feel quite different. </p>

<p>As woohoo points out, Carleton sits at the edge of a quintessential college town of about 18,000 about 40 miles from the Twin Cities. The campus is centered around a classic quad, hosts 2 small lakes, and is surrounded by about 800 acres of aboretum intersected by miles of running/cross country ski trails. This is very much a traditional residential college experience. Lots of campus-centered activities generally keep people from venturing far. Trips into MSP vary from once a week to once a term depending on one's inclination. </p>

<p>Macalester's setting is obviously quite different but just maybe a little less different than has been suggested. Its "semi-urban" location in a pretty residential neighborhood of St. Paul offers the perk of significant safety - something often compromised at schools with truer downtown/inner city locales - and yet remains very accessible to all of Minneapolis' and St. Paul's offerings. The campus, though small, is well defined and active. In this it differs from urban schools characterized by nebulous borders and a student body that empties out come weekends.</p>

<p>IF your son is open to both of these kinds of college settings, I'd definitely recommend a visit to each when in the area. Carleton's freshman class this past year was 10% international and poli sci is the 2nd most popular major declared at the school (2/3 of that group specifically in IR).</p>

<p>We live in Charlotte, North Carolina and my son doesn't want to go as far away as Macalester or as cold. He wants to be within a 7-8 hour drive. but the school sounds perfect for him although possibly a bit of a reach. Any other schools similar but closer? Also Rhodes sounds interesting but is it too much fraternity life? Going to see Dennison which is closer- any thoughts? Thanks!</p>

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<p>Hey, wait a minute: just because it's safe and pretty doesn't mean it's not "urban." Some cities are safe and pretty. The particular section of Saint Paul where Macalester is located happens to be one of them. But it's also a lively, diverse area: the Twin Cities' oldest African-American community, settled by runaway slaves in the 1860s, is just a mile or so away, and the largest concentration of Asian immigrants in the region is a similar distance. Macalester itself is located right on Grand Avenue, one of the liveliest streets of (mainly locally-owned) shops, boutiques, and restaurants in the Twin Cities, and it's smack between the two downtowns, with easy access to both. This is about as "urban" as you're going to get in the Twin Cities. I'm sorry, just because a city works doesn't make it something other than a city.</p>

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<p>I think what 1190 was trying to say is that it's not downtown or in a commercial area like most people would think of when they hear the term "urban campus". Macalester is primarily surrounded by a residential area, with some neighborhood stores and restaurants.</p>

<p>Compare this to U of M and you'll see my point.</p>

<p>Thanks, bclintonk! Could not have said it better.</p>

<p>^ Well actually U Minnesota is so big and sprawling that it's not exactly surrounded by anything, but both the Minneapolis and St. Paul campuses are abutted more by residential neighborhoods than anything else; it's just that the U is so big it dwarfs them.</p>

<p>Anyway, my point was that Mac's location is very different from Carleton's. Both are safe and pretty, yes, and both are in largely residential areas of their respective communities but Mac is close to the geographical center of the urban core of a metropolitan region of some 3 million people, while Carleton is in a small town of about 19,000 located near but by most measures just outside that metropolitan region. That's a huge difference. I'm not saying one is better, but to equate them would be a huge mistake: Mac is "urban" and Carleton is "small town Midwest." The experience each gives will be quite different as a consequence. Some will prefer one, some the other.</p>

<p>Off topic, but--
S2 is a B+/A- student. Like what we've read about Macalester and Carleton, though they may be somewhat out of his league. Might St. Olaf be one to consider?</p>

<p>If so, could anyone tell me if the student body there is particularly conservative? Would a non-religious student feel out of place at St. Olaf?</p>

<p>Carleton and Macalester are both excellent schools. Those considering Carleton might want to know of its slightly different academic calendar. Carleton is on the quarter system: one quarter before Christmas and two quarters after. First quarter and finals end by Thanksgiving, so students are home for approximately six weeks until after the New Year.</p>

<p>Not a frequent poster here, but I sure did visit lots of schools w/D, including these three.</p>

<p>All are great. D liked the urban setting of Mac, but not the campus, didn't apply. Loved both Carleton and St. Olaf, accepted to both.</p>

<p>Mac has the traditional Semester, St. Olaf has 4-1-4, and a student must participate in 2 of the 1 terms, at least. Carleton is as the previous poster said.</p>

<p>D narrowed her choices and St. Olaf only lost out because D wanted warmer weather. She had enough winter ,and in the end she wanted a city. She wound up at Trinity in SA.</p>