<p>lspf, my father is an architect who has been working on St. Olaf's new science building, which is set to open this fall, for about the past 10 years (really). So he has been to St. Olaf and Northfield literally hundreds of times at this point, and has spoken with many professors, students, and administrators at the school. His impression is that it is a very solid school, appropriate for a B+/A- student. From what he tells me and what I have read/heard elsewhere, I think St. Olaf is known to be a friendly place. It is not my impression that it is an especially conservative place--not as liberal as Carleton, perhaps (a school I applied and was admitted to), but certainly not right-wing, nor oppressively religious. It has a wonderful music program, especially choir, and is known to have good food. It is also known to be very blonde :). Very pleasant place, from all that I can tell (despite the cold Minnesota winters, of course!).</p>
<p>If you visit the Twin Cities, it is really worth the extra time to see all three. St. Olaf is less than five minutes from Carleton and could at least be seen via a drive-through of campus. Yes, it is a little less selective than the other two schools, but has a reputation for exciting academic fervor in students who, perhaps, had been solid but coasting through high school.</p>
<p>St. Olaf does not hide its religious (Lutheran) connections but sees its mission as delivering education to all traditions. Many students are observant Lutherans, but many are not and are not pressured to be in any way. The student body is socially aware but are generally centrist-to-liberal in their outlook, as is the Lutheran denomination (ELCA) that supports St. Olaf. Of the three schools, St. Olaf is probably the most "conservative", but this is only relatively so. </p>
<p>I agree with just about all the observations on this thread.</p>
<p>-- Mac is more activist than Carleton (in spite of the Wellstone connection).</p>
<p>-- Mac kind of specializes in pursuing international perspective, especially insofar as it provides support for a large number of international students. Carleton in this respect is closer to average for LAC's.</p>
<p>-- Mac is in a tidy residential neighborhood with easy access to a wide variety of restaurants. It has a compact campus (about 40 acres) with two borders on busy city streets. Carleton has more of the traditional LAC feel with a beautiful estate-like campus that blends into a large arboretum. Northfield, its home, is a neat large town more or less suspended between St. Olaf on its western edge and Carleton on its east.</p>
<p>--Carleton has the reputation for being particularly academically demanding.</p>
<p>Thank you for the info - will pass it on to S.
We are in suburban NY, so distance is an issue, but these are definitely on our list to explore further. Spoke with a St. Olaf grad today who couldn't say enough about it.</p>
<p>lspf72 -- S applied to Mac this past year. He was B+ student with excellent SAT scores & was waitlisted. Since he didn't choose to stay on the waitlist, I don't know how that would've turned out, but if your son is interested I wouldn't let his grades deter him from applying.</p>
<p>Isp, I live in St Paul, just a couple of blocks from the Mac campus. I'm pretty familiar with all 3 schools, and know faculty and students at each. </p>
<p>As a non-religious, liberal parent, the first time I visited St Olaf, I didn't expect to like it much - but I loved it!!! Ditto for D; it's her favorite of the 3 schools. (She wouldn't consider Mac because it is so close, and Carlton turned her off because IB/AP doesn't buy you anything there.) So by all means visit all 3 schools when you are here.</p>
<p>D just graduated from Carleton. Not intending to be picky, but a quarter system and a trimester system are different in academic focus. Carleton runs on the trimester system, each 10 week class covers a traditional 15 week semester curriculum (one of many explanations for the academic pressure). Students normally take 3 courses each term, the equivalent of 9 semester courses per year, and by Carleton's calculation, 30 semester credits.
[quote]
Course Load: Carleton's academic year is comprised of three 10-week-long terms. Students normally carry 18 credits per term. They may take as few as 12 and, on occasion, as many as 22, or, with special permission, 24, although such heavy course loads are discouraged. Students usually carry three courses each term. The standard course unit is six credits; for purposes of transfer evaluation six credits are comparable to three and one-third semester hours. Although all standard courses carry equal credit, laboratory courses at Carleton are equivalent to those in other colleges that grant five semester hours.
[/quote]
Carleton</a> College Academic Catalog: Academic Regulations</p>
<p>ChiSquare (love the sn): You can "buy" something with IB/AP. Carleton grants up to 36 units in AP/IB credits (2/3 of a year).Carleton</a> College Academic Catalog: Prior Credits</p>
<p>Thanks for the correction! My D came home from a campus visit to tell me that they had told her that they would not grant credits based on IB/AP test scores, and that they had made a statement something like "Carlton believes students should have a 4-year experience in college" - something like that. She must have misunderstood.</p>
<p>One thing to note about Carleton is that the trimester system can cause some complications when a student wants to study off campus because the timing is "off" from the Carleton year. Also, word from some Carleton students my D works with is that it is tough to get Carleton to accept credits from any study abroad program that is not a "Carleton" program (not impossible, but apparently difficult). Not sure how Mac is about that, could be similarly difficult. I do think Carleton is harder to get into, although I don't have the specific stats with me. D went to a local private high school, and there are kids in her class who got into Mac but were waitlisted at Carleton. Also, Carleton has a "busy, happy people" vibe, and has a reputation as being unpretentious for a highly ranked LAC. Mac is a bit edgier (but not unbearably so, from what I know).</p>
<p>On the other hand, the trimester system allows students the possibility of doing two study abroad programs. My daughter just completed one, and is planning on doing another during her senior year. There are quite a few Carleton-approved programs - there is a list posted on the Carleton website. For any program not on the list, the student will have to go through an approval process.</p>
<p>I know two kids currently attending St. Olaf who just love it. My impression is they draw more students from an Upper Midwest regional base than either Carleton or Macalester which are truly national and increasingly international, though I think St. Olaf is working hard to expand out of its traditional Norwegian Lutheran constituency, which might give out-of-region kids a slight edge in admissions. Still, a lot of kids of Norwegian heritage and/or Lutheran religious affiliation are drawn to it, but (as Descartesz says above ^^^^^^^ ) it's ELCA which is the moderate-to-liberal mainstream branch of Lutheranism, consequently it would be a mistake to categorize it as a "conservative" Christian college. IMO St. Olaf is very much an underrated school, and a good match for a kid in the B+ range academically: median ACT 29, median SAT 1320, median unweighted HS GPA 3.65.</p>
<p>Isp, one other thing about St Olaf. At around ~3,000 students, it's a "large" small school. Mac & Carleton are around 1900-2000. That larger size is either a plus or minus, depending on your outlook.</p>
<p>Regarding Carleton study abroad, I assume that the Carleton approved programs would be set up to match the trimester program, so that works out fine. However, many other programs are on a semester plan, so students just have to be careful. My D studied a language for many years that is only spoken in a country that is not on Carleton (or most other college's) preferred program list. She wants to study abroad in the country, so she has visited the study abroad office at every college we have visited to discuss this. Knocked Haverford right off her list, as they simply do not allow students to study abroad at non-Haverford programs. Schools like U of Chicago and U of Puget Sound require the student to withdraw for the term to do it; that sounded too complicated for her, so she took them off her list, too. The Carleton staff was agreeable to helping her study in that country, but she has heard from students that credit transfer and the timing of the non-Carleton programs is an issue. Not an issue for most students, but would be for a few in her situation.</p>
<p>Given the timing of Carleton's trimesters, there is no conflict with programs in the fall. January through May is different, as you could miss two terms. </p>
<p>Just to throw in a bit of nonsense - Carleton and St. Olaf played the only NCAA-sanctioned metric football game in 1977, also known as the Liter Bowl. Carleton initiated this bit of lunacy and St. Olaf good-naturedly went along with it and won the game (as they usually do). (Current Carleton/St Olaf games are known as the "Cereal Bowl" in honor of Malt-O-Meal. Carleton and Macalester play for the "Book of Knowledge" trophy)</p>