Carleton and Macalester

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That's one person's view. I have no opinion myself.

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:) Whew...reidm, tokenadult, and ezduzzit can relax </p>

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But on a deeper level it is hard to get to know them on a personal basis. They have their own personal lives and keep to themselves. They are far less inclusive and welcoming to newcomers...

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<p>Exact same description appeared in this Seattle Times article last week, complaining about Seattle's "social disease". (it may be available without registering) <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2005/0213/cover.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2005/0213/cover.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Where are the truly inclusive people these days? Fake nice people, please do not reply.</p>

<p>I've lived in more than one country, and in more than one region of the United States, and I can think of at least two or three distinct regions that are described as friendly initially, but hard to get to know long-term. For what it's worth, my wife, born and brought up overseas, LOVES Minnesota and cannot be persuaded to leave it even though she didn't see snow for the first time until she was twenty-one years old. (She's seen plenty of snow here, including four new inches of it today. :) ) She's a first-generation lifer as a Minnesotan, so I guess I'll go with the program of being a fifth-generation lifer.</p>

<p>SIL transplanted herself from CA to Minneapolis 10 years ago, and married a NJ transplant (15 yrs). They vow they will never leave, despite aging parents and siblings on both coasts.</p>

<p>tokenadult - I'm so excited you're getting some decent snow amounts. I'm visiting this week and was hoping for a pretty new coating. :cool:</p>

<p>Speaking as runner, there is definitely a difference in friendliness, or perhaps it's a difference in etiquette, between the east coast and the west coast.</p>

<p>When running on the west coast and passing a fellow runner coming the other way there is almost always some sort of acknowledgement - a nod, a little wave, a mumbled greeting, something. Any runner who fails to do so is regarded as stuck up.</p>

<p>On the east coast it's a different story. No smile, no wave, nothing. In fact east coasters often seem startled if some naive west coast runner makes the mistake of greeting them. I can't comment on the midwest. When running in the midwest I almost never see another runner.</p>

<p>Growing up as an Air Force kid I lived in many different states and observed many degrees of friendliness. I lived in Washington state, Florida (twice - both north and south), California (both north and south), New Mexico, Utah (twice), Oregon, and Tripoli, Libya. The place where I found the most genuinely friendly people: New Mexico, hands down.</p>

<p>Seattle is not going to be on my potential retire areas list.
Is Portland like Seattle?</p>

<p>Hmmm...Californians are always described as being superficially friendly too. Maybe it was just a reflection of myself that I was seeing in that friendliness :). Coureur, I remember that it was such a shock, when I arrived in Cambridge, that people in Harvard Square didn't nod and smile at each other as they passed on the sidewalk, or say hi, like people in California did! I actually never really got used to that.....</p>

<p>Continuing with the hijack of the Mac v Carl thread...</p>

<p>dstark,</p>

<p>Disclaimer: DH and I are twice transplanted Californians to the PacNW. H's family are many generation SFer's and mostly live in Marin now.</p>

<p>1st move was to Portland (1980). Loved the change after living in LA (i.e. we could afford a house). Everyone friendlier in contrast to LA rat race, even though Oregon had a reputation for inviting you to visit, but encouraging you not to stay. So it's all relative to what you're used to. Portland has tons of great things going for it and we enjoyed our time there very much, but still has traffic and other big city hassles. Corvalis and Eugene might be worth looking at. Lots of people retire to the Grants Pass/Medford area as it has better weather. Portlanders have a bit of animosity towards Seattlites (size envy :D ???? or maybe that UO vs UW thing?).</p>

<p>We weren't in Portland for long before returning to CA briefly. Transplant #2 was to Seattle burbs (1985). We were welcomed and made friends quickly - most of the transplanted kind like us. We figured out the Portland envy thing: Seattle's vibrancy is stronger, with many more activities available. Surrounded by water everywhere you looked. Every neighborhood has an area with great views. And the UW had been beating UO historically in most sports although not the case anymore (not that my H & I cared being alums of other Pac10 schools). Over the years, the traffic has become practically unbearable. H wants to get out of town to retire. Ironically, we're considering the midwest.</p>

<p>I thought the Seattle Times article aptly described the environment that young singles are encountering here. But I think this is the case in any area dominated by bright and driven young people. I seem to recall EK may be an original Seattlite - she would be a great resource for info.</p>

<p>I've actually bugged people to death on this board, about Portland, Eugene, areas around Seattle.
I did not like that article, however.
Where in the midwest are you considering? My daughter goes to Michigan.
My family is from SF and I live in Marin now. :)</p>

<p>dstart,</p>

<p>What part of Marin? My H grew up in San Rafael. His dad still lives there. I understand why you're looking north to retire. My H swears he will never live in CA again (I'm a "never say never" person). Now, I connect you - I remember you mentioning that your D loved UMich. My S graduated from there in 2003. We all fell in love with the school and Ann Arbor and the football and hockey teams. My H (a USC alum) proudly wears the UM gear - and he has alot!</p>

<p>Today's Seattle Times Sunday Magazine had a feature on the growth of the small town of Anacortes. It is located about 1.5 hours north of Seattle and is the stepoff point for the ferries through the San Juan Islands and to Victoria BC. I'd love to live up that way, or on one of the islands (expensive...). We will take a getaway weekend or two each year to one of the San Juans.</p>

<p><a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2005/0220/cover.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2005/0220/cover.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Maize&Blue, I promised my wife I wouldn't get more specific about where I live on these public forums. :)
I just saw Terra Linda beat a Napa team in high school basketball a couple of days ago. I'm sure your husband knows about Terra Linda.
I love Ann Arbor. If it wasn't so freakin' cold, I would consider living there.
I wear my Michigan sweatshirt all the time and am stopped all the time so people can yell "Go Blue" at me.
I loved your link. That subject interests me more than colleges. :)</p>

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<p>I lived in Oregon during that phase, which has since transformed into not even inviting you to visit, especially if you are from California. I was born in the Pacific Northwest and graduated from high school in Oregon. If I had to pick a place to which I feel native it would be Oregon. But a few years ago while in Oregon to visit my mother who still lived in Salem, we pulled off the freeway into some Portland suburb to eat. Spotting our California plates, some locals came over and in no uncertain terms told us how unwelcome we were and would we please just leave. I told them that I had been living in Oregon for years before they were even born, that I had every right to return home to visit my mother, and that their bad manners made me ashamed to say I was also from Oregon. </p>

<p>I was shocked by their smug rudeness. It was at that point that I began to think that maybe I had outgrown the Pacific Northwest. It was time to start thinking of myself as being from somewhere else. I'll gladly take the SoCal rat race over that kind of "friendliness".</p>

<p>coureur - What a rude occurrence. The insular attitude must be getting worse. My Oregon friends relate that their home prices are skyrocketing and the tax structure is still a mess (some school districts a year or so ago were closing a few weeks early). Seems like they still want to blame their problems on someone else.</p>

<p>dstark - I know what you mean about AA. I drove through many neighborhoods salivating over the possibilities of living there (to my S's horror - but I had fun dreamin'). As for the weather, I've gotten used to the cold and rather like the snow, even if it is not so pretty after a few days. We get a bit of snow here from time to time. The district I teach in has a February week-long break (ski-week), so I've always visited S (and now D, too) during this time. Others go to HI, I'm visiting WI and MN starting tomorrow (and before that AA).</p>

<p>So glad your D is loving UMich. She's getting a fabulous education there. My S says he never had a bad class, and there is no such thing as grade inflation there. His grades were hard-earned. His friends were offered jobs after graduation or, like him, entered grad school. Everyone of them had a placement in hand before they graduated. BTW, you'll come to love that UM finishes up in April and your D will be the first one home!</p>

<p>Maize&Blue, I am glad to read all your positive comments about Michigan and Ann Arbor. My daughter reacted the same way as your son when I told her I would like to live in Ann Arbor.</p>

<p>She would also agree with you, no grade inflation at Michigan.</p>

<p>I am also glad to see that everyone of your son's friends had a placement before graduation. When you are paying out-of-state tuition, you do wonder about these things.</p>

<p>Write up a report about your views on Madison when you get back. Those kinds of posts are the most popular on this board. I would like to read your comments. </p>

<p>Have fun in WI and MN.</p>

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<p>They talk more slowly than East coasters, in a less-stressed voice. This seems more friendly.</p>

<p>But on a deeper level it is hard to get to know them on a personal basis. They have their own personal lives and keep to themselves. They are far less inclusive and welcoming to newcomers than East-coasters are, at this deeper level of involvement.

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<p>I am an east coast "transplant" and after reading and thinking about that....it is actually quite true to a degree.</p>

<p>DD and I would like her to find a single room (or single as part of a suite) so on top of all the other new stressors of college, she isn't also learning to share a room with a stranger. Know whether any of these schools have singles? How are the interest houses set up room-wise?</p>

<p>Half of a college education takes place outside the classroom. Learning to share a space with a stranger is an excellent thing to do, even more so if there is resistance to it.</p>

<p>And what a throwaway observation for my 3,000th post.</p>

<p>This has been debated extensively on CC, and many of our kids have found that, when it's an option, eschewing the whole "learn to live with a stranger" scenario is just fine for some kids, and have not actually turned into anti-social pariahs.</p>

<p>It's an individual choice.</p>

<p>Garland, I suppose it's like one of those chess openings where the variations are "booked" 37 moves in advance. What the heck. I'll make the move any way.</p>

<p>My concern isn't with anyone turning into an anti-social pariah, fwiw.</p>

<p>I know, I know. but let's skip the ritual. the gruesome roommate scenario is one you have to experience; it can't be explained, really. Benefits? Sometimes. Necessary, irreplaceable ones? Don't think so.</p>

<p>Okay, I guess I moved after all.</p>

<p>Oddly enough, again, it's not the gruesome roommate scenario that I see as being valuable. Maybe I'm playing the Steinmetz variation.</p>