Carleton College or Smith College?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Carleton College
1

A little background about me. I’m nerdy and quirky. Somewhat smart, very hardworking. Gets good grades. Introverted.
Will attend parties but not a drinker. Prefers small gatherings over large ones. Loves reading. Athlete - I am a recruited athlete (at both schools). Will major in Biology and minor in Psychology. Long term goal - MSc or PhD in Genetics (hopefully)

I love both of these schools equally but for different reasons.

Smith - love the town of Northampton. All-women’s college (hard to replicate this at a coed school). Semester system. Located close to major cities on the east coast - where I hope to settle one day. My one concern with Smith is that academically, it’s not as respected as Carleton and I’m not sure if the students will be as quirky as I am.

Carleton - love the students there (they all remind me of me). Everyone is so friendly. Wonderful professors who are passionate about what they do. My concerns about Carleton is their Trimester system as I’ll be let out much later than my peers which means I could lose out on work opportunites in the summer. Also, it’s in the mid-west. I don’t know if I can see myself working in the Twin Cities after graduation.

Since there are things I love and not love about both schools, I’m trying to make this decision based on my future goals - since that will be most objective (in my opinion).

Which of these two schools will be viewed more favorably by elite grad schools? Do either school engage in grade deflation? Which school will provide me better research opportunities? Which will better prepare me for grad school?

Thanks for your help.

2

Why don’t you apply to both?

3

I am familiar with both. I can say with confidence that elite grad schools won’t think one is better than the other. Go t whichever school where you feel you will thrive the most.

4

To doschicos, I wish I could apply to both, but unfortunately I can only apply to 1 college Early Decision. As a recruited athlete, the coaches expect you to apply ED1.

Thanks Snowball City. Both schools are well regarded. My concern is that Carleton is more of a STEM school compared to Smith and I fear that elite grad schools will frown upon that. But it sounds like it wouldn’t be an issue.

5

Smith is edgier politically, especially in feminism and gender issues. Overwhelming to some students, while others thrive on it. Carleton is more laid back in that respect (but most colleges are more laid back in that respect than Smith). I think Carleton is slightly stronger academically. And Carleton is not more of a STEM school – not sure where you got they impression. They are strong across the board as a LAC.

Take a look at this: http://www.thecollegesolution.com/the-colleges-where-phds-get-their-start/

Carleton shows up in many disciplines. Didn’t review all,but Smith is not prominent in top 10 rankings.

6

Both colleges are highly regarded for STEM and by elite grad schools. You can’t go wrong either way. In those respects, it is splitting hairs.

7

Intparent, yes, I did see that article you’d mentioned. I noticed that Smith wasn’t in the top 10 schools where PhDs get ttheir start - and that’s the reason for my concern.

When I add up the percentage of STEM majors in the Common Data Set for both schools (Section J), I noticed that Carleton conferred 40.17% STEM majors versus 24.51% STEM majors at Smith. I agree that Carleton is not a STEM school compared to say, MIT. But I think that it has a stronger reputation for conferring STEM majors compared to Smith.

What about grade deflation? If elite grad schools regard both Smith and Carleton equally, then maybe grade deflation should be a consideration?

8

I wouldn’t factor that in. It is unlikely that that grad schools will split hairs like that in an application. The GRE exam and your references will play a big role as well as your personal statement.

9

I do think that at a school like Carleton, profs are possibly more focused on helping their students get into grad school (hence one reason for the good results). My D2 (who got into Carleton but picked another school that shows up a lot on those top 10 lists) got an immense amount of personal help from a couple of profs that she had researched with on campus. They gave her great opportunities, a lot of mentoring, advised her on which programs to look at and which ones to stay away from, and wrote great rec letters (I saw one of them, they were really strong). I’m not saying you can’t get that kind of help at Smith, but clearly Carleton is doing something right in that area.

10

The campus atmospheres are very different. Smith is an almost radical place socially compared to Carleton because of the single gender situation and how that has evolved in the past 25 years. Only you can know if you find that to be a positive or a negative.

11

I would be surprised if SAY has ever talked to a cross section of Smith students. Just like at Carleton there are students who are passionate about progressive causes and many who are focussed on other interests.

12

My next door neighbor’s daughter went to Smith and both she and her mother mostly agreed with the following famous letter to Smith. This letter might be a bit overboard but it’s completely true that most of the applicants in coastal California also see it this way.

To the Editor,
I am the president of the Smith Club of Westchester County. I enjoy reading the Sophian online because it helps me stay abreast of developments at the school.

I read your article about [President] Carol [Christ]'s resignation and it had some interesting statistics. It mentioned the percentage increase in the population of women of color and foreign students. The gist of the article was that one of Carol’s objectives coming into the position was to increase diversity and the article gave statistics that showed that she did.

As someone who has followed admissions for many years, I can tell you how the school is viewed by students in Westchester and Fairfield Counties. First, these counties are some of the wealthiest in the country. The children have parents who are highly educated and accomplished and have high household incomes. The children are programmed from day one to get into Ivy League schools.

To this demographic, Smith is a safety school. Also, very few of these students want to go to a single sex school. With the exception of Wellesley, it is not hard to get into the Seven Sisters any more. The reason why Wellesley is more selective is because it is smaller than Smith and in a better geographic location – Boston beats Northampton.

The people who are attending Smith these days are A) lesbians or B) international students who get financial aid or C) low-income women of color who are the first generation in their family to go to college and will go to any school that gives them enough money. Carol emphasizes that this is one of her goals, and so that’s why the school needs more money for scholarships or D) white heterosexual girls who can’t get into Ivy League schools.

Smith no longer looks at SATs because if it did, it would have to report them to U.S. News & World Report. Low-income black and Hispanic students generally have lower SATs than whites or Asians of any income bracket. This is an acknowledged fact because they don’t have access to expensive prep classes or private tutors.

To accomplish [President Christ’s] mission of diversity, the school is underweighting SAT scores. This phenomenon has been widely discussed in the New York Times Education section. If you reduce your standards for grades and scores, you drop in the rankings, although you have accomplished a noble social objective. Smith has one of the highest diversity rates in the country.

I can tell you that the days of white, wealthy, upper-class students from prep schools in cashmere coats and pearls who marry Amherst men are over. This is unfortunate because it is this demographic that puts their name on buildings, donates great art and subsidizes scholarships.

-Anne Spurzem '84

Acceptance rate is 36%

13

wow! quite the letter. I have no connection to Smith at all but so many incorrect statements.

How about Barnard’s acceptance rate for starters?

I know several rich, non-lesbian (not that it matters), prep school kids at Smith. Anne is more than a bit out of touch in many ways. Not Smith’s best output. Hopefully, they are shaping better young women these days.

14

I know 3 Smith students. Two, honestly, fit this mold. One doesn’t, and excelled academically and in her career in the couple years since she graduated.

15

Oh the pearl clutching! The horror of having a diverse student population! None of these students will ever amount to much! Not “our kind of people”!

16

Anne Spurzem sounds a lot like Ann Coulter to me.

17

Lesbians! Lol.

I had read the Spurzem letter when it was in the news but I had forgotten some of the best parts.

18

At Carleton the trimester system really isn’t that bad when it comes to internships. People manage to find ones that work and some students even able to leave early during spring trimester to pursue internships they are really passionate about. Also the extended winter break between fall and winter term allows students to take ‘externships’ (short internships - many of which are provided through the college and alumni). Also just because Carleton is in the Mid-West doesn’t mean you are going to end up living/ working in the Twin Cities. Most Carleton grads don’t. Also, as you said you don’t drink, fair warning about the parties. Many students chose not to drink, and you certainly aren’t forced to, but drinking is a big part of the party scene on campus. I understand your concerns but they really aren’t to much of an issue for most Carleton students.