<p>Okay. Facts about myself:
1. I plan to earn a PhD in the humanities.
2. I love discussions, small classes, and intellectual atmosphere.
3. I don't want to be, however, rushed through exams and readings. I want ample time to chew and swallow the materials.</p>
<p>So, here are pros and cons between Carl and Grin.</p>
<p>Carleton
Pros:
More liberal and holistic admission process, maybe?(based on my impression on the website)
Slightly better PhD productivity
More prestige(Top #10 in the US ranking for 10 years) I'm not a big fan of rankings or name value, but it would certainly make me(and my parents, who have to pay for it) more comfortable.
Cons:
Trimester. I want a rigorous curriculum but not a fast curriculum.</p>
<p>Grinnell:
Pros:
Smaller(est?) class sizes
More $ (I'm not exactly sure if and how this will be beneficial, but I guess more money implies better faculty, facility, and opportunities in general?)
Cons:
Well.... it's a semeseter school.</p>
<p>So what do you say? Can anyone defy/approve my judgements?</p>
<p>I'd answer you, but I don't know either of these schools personally. All I know is what I've been able to garner from reading CC, college books, websites, etc. for years.</p>
<p>I think bethievt will post. Her S chose Grinnell over Carleton (accepted at both) and she admires both schools but absolutely supports her S's choice.</p>
<p>I will say given what you've posted, I if I shared your feelings I would choose Grinnell. I don't think the differences in ranking are significant (mostly reflecting peer assessment which is really just rumor) nor the PhD production. Grinnell is no slouch in that department either. So the reasons for Carleton are mostly rumor, but the reason you prefer Grinnell is real -- semester over trimester.</p>
<p>Both are excellent schools, and I'm sure either would meet your needs.</p>
<p>Grinnell also has a higher per student endowment if that means anything to you.</p>
<p>Good luck! </p>
<p>PS Sorry for saying so much after I said I wouldn't.</p>
<p>They are both such great schools you couldn't go wrong with either. I'm confused by you listing the semester system at Grinnell as a con and the trimester at Carleton as a con as well. The semester system would be, I expect, less rushed. Grinnell does give more merit aid to students they really want to attract. Tuition is also, I believe, slightly lower. The facilities are better at Grinnell, but they are good at both places. I expect the faculty at both are outstanding. Class sizes might be smaller at Grinnell, but I'm not sure about that. Carleton has distribution requirements and Grinnell doesn't.</p>
<p>Oh, I should have put the semester as a pro. ^^; I'm not applying for aid, though. (I'm an international applicant applying ED) So I don't know how Grinnell's richness would benefit me.</p>
<p>I agree with what has been said here, with one exception. I don't necessarily believe that trimesters (quarters) translate into a "fast" curriculum. Back in day, I had first hand experience with both systems as a student. For me, quarters was much more conducive to delving into a topic with some depth because I was only juggling 3 classes, not 5. Certainly everyone has different learning styles so there is no "one size fits all" answer. </p>
<p>Another issue to consider with semester vs. quarters is the academic calendar. For instance, at Carlton classes began this year on 9/15 and will end will end 6/8. At Grinnell, its 8/28 and 5/15. The breaks are different also. Some students in a quarter systems find it is more difficult to secure summer jobs when they get out 3-4 weeks later than semester students. Some prefer to start school later in the year.</p>
<p>I would encourage you to Google "semester vs. quarter" and do a little reading before you reach an opinion about what might be best for you.</p>
<p>My daughter went to Carleton and my son just graduated from Grinnell. As the above posters have pointed out, they are both wonderful schools with a lot in common, but each place does have a different “feel.” I’m guessing that as an international applicant, you might not have the opportunity to visit, so you might want to read some earlier Carleton vs. Grinnell threads to help you get a better picture of each college. Here’s one:</p>
<p>But don’t worry. As bethievt said, you can’t go wrong with either one. I think my daughter would have been just as happy at Grinnell and my son at Carleton—at each school, there’s a niche for everyone.</p>
<p>At Grinnell most students take four courses per semester. My son finds the workload doable, though others struggle with it. I expect he would have found the workload at Carleton doable too.</p>
<p>impsuit</p>
<p>My son didn't apply for FA either, but he was offered a large merit scholarship. I don't know what the policy is on merit aid for international students.</p>
<p>Carleton has been more actively recruiting international students. They now constitute 9% of the student body (10% of the freshman/soph classes, 9% of juniors, and 7% of this year's graduating seniors).</p>
<p>"Despite the growing trend of U.S. students taking five or more years to finish an undergraduate degree, Grinnell College is strongly oriented towards students being enrolled full time in exactly eight consecutive semesters at the college, although exceptions are available for medical issues and other emergencies." -Wikipedia</p>
<p>I was planning to take a year or two off while I'm in college to do some extensive reading on my own. Should I consider a different school if that's what I want? (Is leaving college for a year a good idea, though?)</p>
<p>Grinnell allows a student to take one or two semesters of personal leave and will hold that student's place (you wouldn't have to reapply). You would have to make arrangements at the college before doing this.</p>
<p>If a school is looking to increase its percentage of international students, they might be more interested in admitting you, impsuit. Grinnell has been working on this for years.</p>
<p>to impsuits question, a higher percentage of international students benefits you by increasing the diversity of opinions and life experiences you will encounter both inside and outside the classroom. For example, US education is still very eurocentric and international students are often the ones who are quickest to identify that bias and raise it as an issue. </p>
<p>Having just returned from family weekend, and spoken to other parents with kids at both Grinnell and Carleton (all very happy, by the way), the advising system is one area where Grinnell clearly seems to be better organized. Your advisor is also the professor who leader your freshman tutorial, which gives you and them and opportunity to interact several times a week, both academically and personally. You will get to know each other well in the course of a semester. The lack of distribution requirements at Grinnell also means that the faculty advisor spends a lot of time with the student figuring out what the academic program should look like-this is an expensive, but very personalized, approach. </p>
<p>I should mention that the other thing that impressed us at Family Weekend (other than the fact that S was too busy with extra curriculars to spend a lot of time with us), was how incredibly available the faculty was. He's in and out of their offices routinely to talk about both the academic work and shared interests-so different from when I was a student at a 'big name' school where the faculty was too busy to spend time getting to know undergrads.</p>
<p>As I've mentioned elsewhere, S saw both Grinnell and Carleton and liked them both, but went ED at Grinnell for reasons of fit.</p>
<p>Speaking as a mom with a kid at a school where the advisement is not the strongest suit, that advisement system sounds awesome and very effective.</p>
<p>I know little about Carleton but like the previous posters indicated, both schools have a tremendous number of similarities (close faculty-student relationships, very friendly and accepting student population, can't go wrong academically with either in preparing for graduate school).</p>
<p>D is at Grinnell and the international presence is strong and well integrated into the college. Several girls on her hall are internationals and seem very happy. Grinnell orients internationals a few days before regular freshman orientation. This, I think, helps with acclimating to the US.</p>
<p>Two things have stood out as Grinnell strengths that D appreciates: 1) Faculty accessibility. D loves her classes and has approached faculty for help and conversation (she never did this in high school); her advisor recently had the 13 kids she advises over for desserts that she made (big hit with D); 2) access to a wide range of activities (the large endowment helped here. D auditioned for a scholarship to pay for violin lessons after she arrived at Grinnell and won it-nice savings-I will add that her violin teacher at Grinnell encouraged her to do it-another plug for the faculty).</p>
<p>You should visit. The campus is very attractive and the cornfields are appealing in their own way. At first D did not even want to look at Grinnell, After she visited, she was sold and chose it over many equally fine schools. D does miss the trees of our southern home and the easy access to beach and mountains. However, she's really too busy to even have time for such travels.</p>
<p>bethievt :
Two semesters sounds quite enough. I'm relieved that I don't have to consider erasing Grinnell off the list for such a reason. ^^ Thanks for the information.</p>
<p>"For example, US education is still very eurocentric and international students are often the ones who are quickest to identify that bias and raise it as an issue."
Actually, my experience in Korea might prove otherwise. I think some Koreans fail to realize that they are even more eurocentric than westerners are, because they don't make the effort to overcome it. I think the whole social structure here is westernized and it takes individuals' conscious efforts to de-westernize themselves. Apparently, a lot of ideas and conventions that are clearly of western origin are considered neutral and natural here. I don't know about students from other nations, though, and I'd certainly enjoy meeting them and defying my presupposition.(I'm excited to meet Muslim, Jewish, or Hindu people on campus--I've never met one of them all my life!)
I think I'm going to apply Grinnell on EDII, if I fail to get financial aid in Oberlin EDI.</p>
<p>D was accepted to both Oberlin and Grinnell. The financial packages were similar and only differed by a few hundred dollars. However, she got a merit scholarship from Grinnell which was a nice feel good (Oberlin gives very few merit scholarships and the lion's share of their money goes to need based aid). You should visit both schools and compare the "feel" and see what is best for you.</p>
<p>I'm an international so I can't really consider visiting. ^^; also I've heard that it's hard to get aid in Grinnell as an international ED applicant. I think Grinnell is better to internationals who need 50k and have steller stats, and Oberlin for 25k with less impressive stats. I'm obviously the latter. I don't think I'm that good enough to get merid scholarship, too.</p>
<p>I thought you said you weren't applying for FA. If you are, you should make sure a school would release you from the ED agreement if FA isn't enough. Oberlin is another wonderful school. Class sizes would be larger there. FA awards are hard (impossible) to predict.</p>