Carleton Students Immature?

<p>Alum here–tried to resist adding to this thread, but I had to add two main thoughts.</p>

<p>First, no one has the right to define what is offensive or what is funny–these are not absolutes and you can only do this for yourself. If you think something is funny, you have every right to laugh (because for you, it IS funny). If you think something is offensive, you have every right to be upset (because for you, it IS offensive). If you’re trying to convince something that something is “offensive” or “funny” (again, these are relative terms, so it’s generally unproductive to use them unless it’s followed by “to me”), you have every right to do that and it’s an important reason our society, school, etc. makes social progress. However, this process breaks down anytime one side argues either “chill out, it’s just a joke, stop being so easily offended” or “you are ignorant and offensive–you must accept your problem and try to be better.” Did Youdon’tsay and sakeofanonymity say those quotes I just paraphrased (end embellished)? No–but that’s how they are often interpreted by the other side of the argument, especially in an online forum. Also, if you agree that nothing is objectively “funny” or “offensive,” then it’s also important to note that it doesn’t really matter if the targeted group laughs or not. If an African laughs at a joke about Africa does that make it OK? Or if a community college grad laughs at a community college joke does that make it OK? No–this is all irrelevant because there is no “OK.” It’s just “OK to me…”. If you find it offensive, then it IS offensive (to you), but don’t put words into other people’s mouths (ie don’t say “this IS offensive to Africans” or “this IS offensive to community colleges” because either way some people in those targeted groups are going to still laugh and it’s not fair to assume their voice). </p>

<p>Second, while the minority complaints described by sakeofanonymity are unacceptable in any level and unfortunately do exist at Carleton, the description that “virtually all minority students…really dislike/hate Carleton” is beyond wrong. I worked on the campus climate survey and have a lot of myself invested in the project, so it is frustrating to see this work misused. I’m going to give sakeofanonymity the sake of the doubt and assume they meant to convey that “OF minority students that had a bad experience at Carleton, MANY minority students had a similar complaint…[insert sakeofanonymity’s minority quote].” If the quote was presented that way–then yes, this is true. There was a general “minority” complaint of “our voice is not being heard/our complaints are not being taken seriously.” This is something the whole school has to work on. BUT, was this the complaint of “virtually all” minority students? Do virtually all minority students “dislike/hate” Carleton? The campus climate survey would respond with a resounding “NO!”</p>

<p>Here’s the facts (percentages won’t add up to 100% because some respondents chose answers between Satisfied/Dissatisfied and Comfortable/Uncomfortable): </p>

<p>In response to the general question “Are you satisfied with your Carleton education?”
Respondents of Color: 85.8% Satisfied/Highly Satisfied, 5.4% Dissatisfied/Highly Dissatisfied
LGBQQP: 86.8% Satisfied/Highly Satisfied, 7% Dissatisfied/Highly Dissatisfied
White: 92.5% Satisfied/Highly Satisfied, 3% Dissatisfied/Highly Dissatisfied </p>

<p>In describing “Overall Campus Climate”:
Respondents of Color: 65.5% Comfortable/Very Comfortable, 16% Uncomfortable/Very Uncomfortable
White Respondents: 85.2% Comfortable/Very Comfortable, 5.6% Uncomfortable/Very Uncomfortable
Heterosexual: 81.1% Comfortable/Very Comfortable, 7.5% Uncomfortable/Very Uncomfortable
LGBQQP: 76.3% Comfortable/Very Comfortable, 14.8% Uncomfortable/Very Uncomfortable </p>

<p>As you can see, there is plenty of work to do, and I’m glad there are energetic/devoted people to work on this (because as a grad, it’s harder to effect change from a distance!). But, as someone who supports the college and thinks it’s important that prospective students on this site get an accurate portrayal of Carleton, I think it’s vital not to claim that virtually all minorities hate Carleton, or things of that ilk. We could easily pick and choose stats or quotes to make Carleton look like Heaven or Hell, but the truth is that it’s somewhere in between (and for most people, pretty close to Heaven). </p>

<p>If anyone wants to send me a personal message–feel free! I love having these discussions and I would rather not blow up this thread. </p>

<p>In the end, Carleton (in my experience) is better than the real world, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t fight to improve it. There is a long way to go. My only advice is to assume the best from people (especially online, where a lot of connotation is lost) and attempt to persuade people of what to think instead of telling them what to think. It’s harder, but it in the long run it’s the only method that works. In my experiences, personal stories in 1:1 situations work the best.</p>

<p>Much Love,
Me</p>

<p>Thank you for posting, alsoanonynous. I, too, was trying not to post again because I didn’t feel like it was going anywhere.</p>

<p>1) As you say, I’m never going to convince someone that the T-shirt is funny if they don’t think it is. I’m sure you know that wasn’t my intent. I simply wanted to point out that if you do think it’s funny that it doesn’t mean that you are immature or childish or any number of things.</p>

<p>2) I’m really glad you posted those stats. My ds is a minority, and after sake’s last post I asked ds how he felt on campus, and he’s had nothing but a great experience and hasn’t felt discriminated against in the least.</p>

<p>3) also, I’ll PM you with an observation he did make because you seem interested in these things and might shed some light on the numbers.</p>

<p>Thank you, alsoanonymous. I was going to look up the survey because I was curious about the actual percentages, so I appreciated them being posted here.</p>

<p>This has been an excellent and brave exchange! </p>

<p>My D applied and was accepted at Carleton. In the end she chose to attend a college that 1) provided more financial aid, & 2) seems to have a more diverse student body–Swarthmore. </p>

<p>As a person of color, D would have had some great mentors at Carleton. I know this from the conversations we had regarding her experiences with the staff at Carleton’s wonderful Summer Writing Program. She grew as a person and as a student. (Big reason this was Dad’s sentimental favorite!)</p>

<p>I can see that Carleton and other similarly terrific LACs are making great efforts to welcome these “newer” groups of students to their campuses. It’s not an easy undertaking for staff/administrators; must be a frustrating “Catch 22” task (at times) just to get these certain demographic groups to recognize their schools–let alone getting them to apply! But it is needed more then ever for the future health of our nation.</p>

<p>I especially appreciate the shared utube link regarding that student’s experience at Middlebury–which could be used as broader statement about the experience of many students of color in our LACs. What a brave young lady–should be required viewing for LAC administrators throughout the country.</p>