Carleton vs. Bates Fly-in Programs

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Hello,

I was accepted to the Taste of Carleton program, and accepted the offer a few weeks ago. Besides Midway Airport, I have never been to the Midwest, nor have I visited a top Liberal Arts college.

I applied to a litany of fly-in programs, as a low-income student, they are my best hope at seeing these places firsthand prior to applying. A few overlapped, but I was confident in accepting Carleton’s over alternatives until yesterday, when I received a notice of admission to Bates’ College’s Prologue to Bates.

Though neither are at the top of my college list, comparing them, Bates really stands out to me. I deeply value institutions with a mission and Bates’ legacy as an early co-ed, abolitionist institution resonates with me, plus Lewiston seems a wonderful city and a much nicer location. When it comes to actually attending, it really does feel as if I’d prefer Bates. On the other hand, Carleton seems slightly stronger based on ranking and reviews, although it seems that at a certain level, that doesn’t matter much (e.g., a good friend of mine is grateful she turned down Swarthmore for Washington & Lee despite rankings and my aunt tried to turn down Yale for Tulane, and only attended Yale for financial reasons).

I have reached out to the folks from Carleton since last weekend (originally regarding an itinerary question, and it seems that they have not finalized tickets, etc.). Thus, I could reasonably cancel my visit there and accept one to Bates-a decision I have until Friday at midnight to make. My planned major would be Politics (Bates) or Political Science/International Relations (Carleton), with the possibility of an Environmental Studies double major at either. I am curious about strength of programs, “vibe,” and anything else folks feel I might want to know to make a better, more well informed decision.

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These are both outstanding schools, and you really can’t go wrong. At that level, specific rankings don’t matter – you’re right about that. It’s more about what’s right for your. Would you prefer urban (albeit small urban) or rural? Would one region work better for you than the other? As far as vibe is concerned, I can’t speak to Carleton, but my daughter just started her first year at Bates, so I have a bit of a feel for it. I wouldn’t necessarily categorize Lewiston as a “wonderful” city, but it is a pleasant one, and somewhat underrated in my opinion. It’s diverse, with a large immigrant population (this is a positive!), good dining options, and a cute downtown. The vibe is friendly and open – she’s commented many times how kind and supportive students, faculty, and staff have been. They do have a fantastic environmental studies program. My daughter is taking a few classes that are not in the Politics major but have political themes, and she’s loving it. Bates also has a significant focus on community engagement and strong ties to the Lewiston area – so that might appeal to you. For example, my daughter is taking an educational studies class with a fieldwork component in the local schools. Again, you can’t go wrong, though – talk to as many people as you can.

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Congrats on these opportunities! My son attends Bates, and we visited both Carleton and St. Olaf, which is also in Northfield MN, on two different visits so are somewhat familiar with the school.

Both schools are great! Carleton is probably viewed as a bit more prestigious/is slightly more highly ranked, but they are peer schools in the universe of elite small LACs. Some academic differences - Carleton runs on a trimester system, which can mean that the classes can be a bit more intense as they will move pretty quickly. Bates has a traditional semester system with an additional month-long “short term” which happens in May, and which Bates is very proud of. The tout “short term” as being much better than the traditional “J-term” that some schools have, as you get to take your fun, month-long class when the weather is beautiful and you can enjoy the wonderful outdoors in Maine. Carleton offers the opportunity to take classes at nearby St. Olafs, which is just a mile or two away, which could provide a lot of additional classes. At Bates, my son has been taking a lot of political science and economic classes and has been really impressed and excited about the quality of the classes and especially the professors.

The campuses are both really nice. I like Bates’ actual campus a little better, but at Carleton there is an adjoining arboretum which is really gorgeous. Near Bates though is a Bird Sanctuary which offers great hiking and is just off campus.

I do think Northfield MN beats Lewiston ME in terms of college towns. Northfield is your traditional quaint college town - lots of restaurants, coffee shops, bustling with college students. Lewiston . . . isn’t. It has some nice restaurants and places to go, and every time we visit my son, I want to like it better than I do. But, it’s just got an empty feel to it, and just isn’t a nice a place to frequent as is Northfield.

Beyond campus, if you love the outdoors, Maine is the big winner. So so much to explore for those who enjoy camping, hiking, skiing. My son, a huge outdoors lover, is in heaven. The outing club at Bates is active and great, and does a lot of fun trips.

Overall, I don’t think you’ll go wrong with either school - sorry if this wasn’t helpful!

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Congrats on 2 great options!

What I would do is ask yourself “Which college would I have chosen for a fly-in if both opportunities had been offered at the same time?” and then choose that one. I wouldn’t overthink it. Feel free to go with your gut! Do not worry about rankings or details like that because the education is very similar.

Whichever school is NOT chosen, just email them or call them and say “Thank you so much for the invitation, but I will not be able to attend.” You don’t have to give an explanation. Then send a short but pleasant thank you card to that office through regular mail. "Thanks again for inviting me to the fly-in. I was so sorry to have been unable to attend after all. I am still interested in your school and still plan to apply. Sincerely ShivomP " Something like that. And then later for the fly-in school you do attend, send THEM a thank-you note as well.

Have a great senior year and best of luck with college admissions!

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It may make sense for you to also consider the cost of transportation and living at each college once you are a student. I have learned from both my college daughters that they see students struggle with the extra expenses and the high cost of visits home for breaks vs other students, as not something budgeted for or easily affordable to most. Both schools are in cold climates, so your clothing needs will be the same. My one daughter at a very cold LAC was one of many student participants in a coat and winter gear drive for students that did not have the proper gear - they had requests for over 40 winter coats from students and even more for warm socks, boots, gloves and hats. This is a well funded and prestigious school and went down a notch in our eyes when we heard that low income/1st gen students were lacking basic items and it took the students fundraising to provide for these students.

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That sounds right up my alley! Thank you.

sorry if this wasn’t helpful!

It absolutely was, especially the details about Lewiston, which seems fine to me as someone who enjoys small cities/wants a town with a college more so than a college town, per se.

My one daughter at a very cold LAC was one of many student participants in a coat and winter gear drive for students that did not have the proper gear - they had requests for over 40 winter coats from students and even more for warm socks, boots, gloves and hats. This is a well funded and prestigious school and went down a notch in our eyes when we heard that low income/1st gen students were lacking basic items and it took the students fundraising to provide for these students.

I am from the Rocky Mountain West, will probably end up being the winter gear provider to my fellow FGLI students! More seriously, that is genuinely concerning and I appreciate you sharing.

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We are from the Rocky Mountain West, too (Denver area). In terms of transportation to and from schools, obviously Carleton would be easier, because it’s easy and relatively inexpensive to fly into Minneapolis, which is a much shorter trip overall (and you can fly direct). However, Bates would not be be as hard as you’d think, depending on where you’re coming from. Southwest flies into the Portland airport, which is only about 35 minutes from Lewiston (and there are shuttles you can take). There’s also a bus from Boston to Lewiston. You’re looking at pretty long travel days, especially eastbound with a connection and a time zone change, but it’s doable.

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I don’t know Bates, but I love Carleton and its down-to-earth students.

This thread has a lot of specifics about Carleton’s vibe, if it helps:

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Hi ShivomP - Carleton and Bates are great options! Both are about the same on Niche rankings, but Carleton is a bit higher in US News (FYI I think that’s fairly recent in terms of the change in top 10 SLACs). Bates had a lower acceptance rate this year (12 percent) vs Carleton (21 percent) - I think Bates keeps getting more apps these days due to popularity of the all the small New England colleges (NESCACs, etc.). Bates/Bowdoin/Colby, all Maine, share some resources (jobs/internships/library/student groups) so that is a plus. There is an increased interest in the Boston area schools, and New England region in general, from what we’ve noticed lately. I have a kid at Bates, so a bit biased of course! We’ve been really happy so far - they are known for excellent teaching (same with Carleton) - and the campus is very welcoming. Lewiston/Auburn has so many close ties with campus so students can work or research in the area as part of their college experience. If you’re interested in politics, there are opportunities to work with local officials there. It’s very easy to do. Political science is a strength there - have been impressed with that department. We know happy kids at both Carleton and Bates, so you can’t go wrong. Check out the courses offered and see what appeals the most. Best of luck!

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It would help to know which schools are at the top of your list (as you wrote that neither Bates nor Carleton is at the top of your list).

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For those with an interest in historical U.S. News rankings, it might be worth noting that Carleton has placed as high as third, in the edition published in 1987. This was an especially challenging position to attain, in that tightly positioned schools were not placed in ties at the time.

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Georgetown, but I doubt I could afford it (I have an EFC of 0, Georgetown meets full need with loans and generally a larger expected contribution than I could make reasonably).

Beyond that, Princeton, Brown, Rochester, Northeastern, Amherst, Colorado College, and Johns Hopkins all stand out.

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Political Science & International Relations is an interesting mix. Adding in Environmental Studies is even more interesting.

Both Carleton & Bates are–as you already know–located in very cold, off-the-beaten path areas. Carleton has a very academic campus culture.

Do you have a particular career in mind ? Or will you be off to law school after finishing undergraduate school ?

Have you considered Claremont McKenna College in California ?

Bowdoin College in Maine ? Dartmouth College ?

College of William & Mary ? William & Mary/St. Andrews dual degree program ?

Regarding your upcoming fly-in visit choice: If you visit Bates College, I suspect that you will make a determination based in large part upon the city of Lewiston. If you visit Carleton College, your interest will be shaped by the focus on academics.

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With respect to the above, these sites may be of interest:

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Important for you to articulate why these schools are of interest as they offer quite different environments and campus cultures.

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Public diplomacy (whether for the Foreign Service or an organization such as Voice of America) deeply interests me, as do some of the more moral possiblities under the consulting realm (environmental consulting) and political campaign work. That being said, while I would like to work for a while first, there is a decent chance I’ll be off to law school.

I also think that considering ROTC to be an officer in the Army Reserve or a single active duty tenure of 4 years-in the latter case I would probably plan on law school next.

Have you considered Claremont McKenna College in California ?

Yes! I was rejected from their fly-in program, and while rejection from that does not necessarily equal rejection generally, it does not bode well. That being said, I do feel as if my essays are a strength and they might tip the balance, as they were not a factor in the CMC fly in application.

Bowdoin College in Maine ? Dartmouth College ?

Considering both! Was very concerned by how Greek Dartmouth is, but another thread made it clear that they are largely not residential, and events are generally open to all. I prefer somewhere not so isolated though, but I think I could tolerate Dartmouth or somewhere like Amherst, albeit I doubt I’d enjoy Williams.

College of William & Mary ? William & Mary/St. Andrews dual degree program ?

Had not looked into it much for undergraduate, I will! A friend of mine has it as her top choice and deeply enjoyed a pre-college program she did there.

Regarding your upcoming fly-in visit choice: If you visit Bates College, I suspect that you will make a determination based in large part upon the city of Lewiston. If you visit Carleton College, your interest will be shaped by the focus on academics.

I did end up choosing Bates-not just because of Lewiston though, I thought their culture was up my alley a bit more. I honestly feel that I would be happy at both, and the mild differences on the part of Bates won out.

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Yale University appears on all 3 lists that you linked.

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May I ask why you singled-out Yale, when, for example, the titular Carleton appears in all three sites as well?

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Because the OP already knows about Carleton College.

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My kid’s friend attended Carleton for a year…he thought folks there were pretty close minded and all thought the same way about the same things…. and tried to persuade all students to do the same thing. If you’re looking for a diversity of thought at a school, this may not be the place for you.