Carleton vs. Macalaster vs. Grinnel ???

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>These three schools are what my daughter is thinking about applying to for her reach schools. She falls at about the 25th percentile academically at them on average.</p>

<p>We have not visited any in person yet. We hope to do so soon though. She is mostly looking for a great undergrad LAC experience to prep her most likely for Grad School in Psych., but also has a strong interest in Writing and Studio Art (a Phd. in Counseling Psych or Art Therapy on on her mind).</p>

<p>For those that have visited or attended any of these, what are your thoughts academically, socially, etc...?</p>

<p>I would describe her as; a liberal Christian, laid back but like to have substance free fun, very creative in art and writing, somewhat quiet until she finds her niche, music is important to her on a personal level but she does not intend to study it....just enjoy others making it, great at adding thoughts to a discussion, very unpretenscious.</p>

<p>Thanks for any advice,</p>

<p>DJD</p>

2

<p>We visited all three a couple years ago.</p>

<p>In terms of geography, they are each somewhat different. Macalester is located in a very nice neighborhood in St. Paul, so it is fairly urban/suburban. Carleton is rural, but you can get to Minneapolis in 45 minutes. Grinnell is also rural, but a large city is not really a day trip.</p>

<p>Our impression was that Macalester had the most internationals, was really focused on international issues (I believe Kofi Anon is an alum) and was the most liberal. They have a beautiful new student center.</p>

<p>We thought the Carleton campus was very beautiful and the town of Northfield was charming. Carleton prides itself on being a little quirky in a fun way. The students are very brainy - a work hard/play hard group. We got the impression that there was a considerable amount of partying going on.</p>

<p>I would characterize Grinnell as very similar to Carleton. There's an incredible building boom going on there, in no small measure due to their huge endowment per student (5th in the country last time I looked). The vibe I got from Grinnell was that it was a very supportive environment, with students very similar to Carleton's, except maybe lower on the party scale.</p>

<p>Not sure how financial aid fits into your picture, but Grinnell and Carleton guarantee to meet 100% of demonstrated need, Macalester does not. We found Grinnell to be the best overall deal, because they offer some nice merit based scholarships and Carleton doesn't (except for a small NMS one).</p>

<p>I would recommend that you look closely at the academic programs that your daughter is interested in to see how that matches up with the school’s offerings. Having said that, the choice between these three is going to come down to fit – where does she feel the most comfortable.</p>

<p>They are all great LAC’s, no question.</p>

<p>Side Note: DS was accepted at these three LAC's and really wanted to go to Carleton.
He ended up at Michigan because the $ was just too good to pass up and is now a sophomore. Even though he was pretty heartbroken about Carleton, there is not doubt in his mind now that he made the right choice. He's a math major and is able to avail himself of opportunities (high level analysis classes, ability to take graduate level classes now, large group of math geek peers, etc.) that would have never been available to him at the LAC's. I'm a big believer in LAC's, but in his case the big public turned out to be the best choice.</p>

3

<p>SBDad is incorrect. Macalester also meets 100% of demonstrated financial need and 2/3 of students receive an aid package. 80% of need is met by grants and scholarships--the rest would be student work and loans. SBDad may be referring to the fact that Macalester is no longer completely "need blind";at the lower end of the applicant pool financial need may make a difference.</p>

<p>We have visited both Macalester and Carleton. My extroverted elder daughter is very happy at Macalester and loves living in the Twin Cities. She wouldn't even visit Grinnell because it is too rural. My younger daughter, who is more introverted and interested in science, currently prefers Carleton; she also refused to visit Grinnell. I do have a friend whose son and daughter are both very happy with Grinnell though. All 3 could be visited within 2 days.</p>

<p>I know there are several outstanding professors in the Psychology Department at Macalester--my daughter may take enough interesting classes in that department to pick up a Psych minor. Studio art classes also seem popular. I wouldn't consider the music department to be especially strong, but lots of concerts are available in the Twin Cities.</p>

<p>All 3 have good academics and grad school placement. Macalester has the advantages of the Twin Cities (and being in a very nice area of St Paul, very few of the disadvantages); Carleton is about 40 minutes from the Twin Cities.
Grinnell is about an hour from, I think Des Moines. Macalester would be very liberal, politically active, attracts those interested in internationalism, diversity and community service.</p>

4

<p>Agree with SBDad and Masquemom. All three are great schools but very different. Macalester also offers some merit aid, up to $5,000/yr, but Grinnell is by far the most generous on that front, both because they have the richest endowment and because they need to offer merit money to lure the students they want given locational disadvantages. But I have to say, I meet a ton of graduates of all three schools here in the Twin Cities, and I can't recall ever having met an alum who wasn't absolutely thrilled with their experience at any of these schools. It's hard to go wrong here, really just a matter of best fit if your D has that choice.</p>

<p>While visiting Carleton, be sure also to look at St. Olaf College, just a mile away across town. Gorgeous campus, quality school, very strong academics, much underappreciated on CC. It's also got a very good psych department, with a strong record of producing future Ph.D.s. If your D is at the 25th percentile for Mac, Carleton, and Grinnell, she might be closer to the 50th percentile at St. Olaf, making it a "match" to complement the other three as "reaches." St. Olaf also has a bit more of a (moderate-to-liberal) Christian flavor than Mac, Carleton, and Grinnell which are all pretty secular. Might be a good fit for your D.</p>

5

<p>Our daughter went to Carleton and our son to Grinnell. Neither one minded the rural aspect because there was always so much to do on campus. I can’t speak to the Psychology or Studio Art department, but our daughter majored in English, and Carleton prepared her well for graduate school. She is now working on her Ph.D. The students at Grinnell always struck me as a bit quirkier than those at Carleton (but maybe that’s just because my son is a little quirkier than my daughter :)). </p>

<p>There is a thread about Carleton vs. Grinnell (from May) that you might find helpful. I’ll try to link:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/509480-carleton-vs-grinnell.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/509480-carleton-vs-grinnell.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

6

<p>My apologies on my error regarding Mac financial aid. When we visited, there was a big controversy where the school was talking about changing their policy about meeting 100% of need and at the same time building some big athletic facility. The students were protesting - they must have won!</p>

<p>I also think visiting St. Olaf is a great idea.</p>

7

<p>I'll join the chorus. These are three great schools that, despite their superb reputations, still garner less attention than they deserve because of their Midwest locations. </p>

<p>Carleton and Grinnell probably have more in common with one another than with Macalester. Mac is obviously the most urban of the three, but also probably distinguishes itself as having the most liberal and international student body. Although they still represent a minority of the campus, Carleton's math and science majors constitute a larger (an unusually large) percentage of the student body. The three campus themselves are also very measurably different. Carleton's is the largest with a sizeable adjoining arboretum, Grinnell's somewhat in between with the fewest rough edges, Mac's is a good deal smaller than both, something not surprising in view of the urban locale. The student enrollment numbers are measurably different as well - about 2,000 at Carleton and Mac, about 1,600 at Grinnell. I doubt that academic interests will be a deciding factor. They will be very well supported by all three schools. </p>

<p>Your daughter will absolutely need to visit. Most kids I've known hit these three campuses and leave with a visceral reaction that just tells them what feels right. Gut seems to win out over careful analysis most of the time. Probably as it should be.</p>

8

<p>We have visited Grinnell and plan to visit other two. Grinnell has impressive resources, but it is really quite a rural location. Four years might get to be a bit much there. The admin staff were all very friendly and helpful. Go visit.</p>

9

<p>We also visited all three-liked all of them but S ultimately choose Grinnell ED because the fit was the best for him. A few things that differentiated Carleton and Grinnell (Macalester is an urban school and has quite a different feel).</p>

<p>1) Carleton is on a trimester system and Grinnell on the semester system. That has obvious pros and cons.</p>

<p>2) Grinnell had the most amazing facilities of any LAC we visited (we saw 10), reflecting their huge endowment.</p>

<p>3) Although Grinnell is arguably more 'rural' than Carleton since Des Moines and Iowa City are smaller than Minneapolis, kids don't leave campus very often for either school-too much going on at school. </p>

<p>4) Transportation in/out of Carleton might be easier because the airport is larger.</p>

<p>5) Grinnell offers very generous merit, as well as financial aid, which we appreciated.</p>

<p>So far, Grinnell has been everything S hoped and we are pleased.</p>

10

<p>Thanks for all the great advice so far. It is so good to get "first hand" opinions, in addition the the array of printed material and other "professional" reviews. </p>

<p>As I have been looking at the school's websites and planning when we might be able to visit, I can almost even sense from that the "feel" that some of you describe. </p>

<p>One other school on my daughters list, but not statistically in this group is St. Olaf. If anyone has comments on St Olaf by itself or compared to these other 3 that they would like to throw in, please do so. </p>

<p>Any thoughts form those of you who visited these schools if there is a preference of going to one of the "big visit days" type of thing, compared to going on just a normal school day with what I assume would be a much smaller group? I would think the trade off would be excitement-fanfare vs. more personal attention?</p>

<p>Thanks Again,</p>

<p>DJD</p>

11

<p>To me the advantages of Macalester's safe neighborhood urban community, coupled with its international diversity and access to music of all kinds, overwhelms any advantages of the other two.</p>

12

<p>mini:</p>

<p>If it's an urban environment you want and that weighs in as a significant factor in where to attend, I'd agree. But this is not a debate about "city vs. country." Your statement is "global" enough to suggest you there is little logic in considering the likes of Dartmouth, Williams, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Cornell, Duke, ........</p>

<p>djdietz:</p>

<p>St. Olaf has a much stronger vocal music program than any of the other three - in fact, one of the best in the country. From their website, "Founded in 1874 by Norwegian Lutheran immigrants, St. Olaf is a nationally ranked liberal arts college of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America." Walking on campus, the school reflects this, with a look and feel that is noticeably less diverse. It is also not surprisingly a more conservative, though not very conservative, environment.</p>

<p>I for one have never been a fan of "big visit days" I agree they tend to present pretty artificial snapshots of campus life. Most would agree that in the best of worlds you'd visit on a random weekend (hopefully not before midterms/finals) and arrange a sleepover in a sponsors room - with parents FAR out of the way. Good hunting.</p>

13

<p>I said what I meant. The advantages of the other two schools over Macalester in any areas that the OP mentioned are so marginal that, if it were me, they would be overwhelmed by the stated advantages of Macalester.</p>

<p>And, yes, in the specific areas that the OP mentioned, it would indeed apply to lots of the other schools YOU referenced, but she didn't. She asked about only these three.</p>

14

<p>These three are nice but I am putting in another plug here for St. Olaf, since it is so close to Carleton and as mentioned, it is often overlooked on CC
GREAT for music. Amazing.
Nice in many areas.
Not a lot of diversity. A little bit conservative, a bit religious, neither extreme - this is one to visit and see how it feels to you. Many kids love it.
St</a>. Olaf College | Colleges That Change Lives</p>