I’m an international student (from Singapore) so I don’t have the benefit of going down to the schools to get a feel of the general vibe and so I’ve been relying on college review websites which I’ve heard can be pretty unreliable/stereotypical so it’d be really nice if someone could give me a better idea of the two colleges, I’d be really grateful Also, I’m writing down the different things I’ve learnt about the two colleges that are major factors for me, hopefully you guys can comment and add to it, or maybe it’ll be helpful for some? (I don’t know, the decision deadline is coming up pretty soon).
Campus: I've heard that Vassar has a beautiful campus, but Carleton has a marvellous arboretum which sounds great. Vassar also has a farm (?) but I'm not sure what that is... I love the outdoors and I'd like to do some hiking/trekking/ cycling, so it'll be nice to have a college with a great campus.
Neighbourhood: I've heard that Carleton is in a very nice small (rural?) town that you can cycle to which has cool cafes and stuff, while Vassar is in an (apparently) pretty shitty town with not much greenery and activities so they just stay on campus or take a 1.5 hour ride to NY. Is this a big issue?
Weather: It's freezing in Minnesota. But it's also pretty cold in NY. Is the winter depression thing real? I'm really worried about this because coming from a tropical country where it's pretty much summer all year round, I think that if the cold really makes you depressed, I could be in for a real miserable time.
Culture: I've read on websites that Carleton has a more silly/unpretentious/grounded feel (especially because of the mid-western stereotype) while Vassar has a more artsy/hippy/sometimes pretentious feel. And I always feel like there's a slightly higher percentage of students who rave about how great Carleton is (and a slightly higher percentage of students that complain that Vassar is 'pretentious') From the videos I've watched, Carleton students do seem a little more silly/take themselves less seriously, but I know it's dangerous to generalise especially since every school will have good and bad types. But as I said, if anyone could tell me the general feel/vibe they got from visiting/studying at Carleton and Vassar, I'll be really grateful.
Reputation and academic strength: Carleton generally has a higher ranking and a higher average SAT score, higher selectivity, and I'm wondering if that means that the reputation it has is slightly better? I know that both schools will give me a great education but as I can't decide, I guess every little difference counts.
Campus: I've heard that Vassar has a beautiful campus, but Carleton has a marvellous arboretum which sounds great. Vassar also has a farm (?) but I'm not sure what that is... I love the outdoors and I'd like to do some hiking/trekking/ cycling, so it'll be nice to have a college with a great campus.
They don’t mention it on that website, but my D has enjoyed outings to waterfalls, a maple syrup farm and of course apple orchards as well.
Neighbourhood: I've heard that Carleton is in a very nice small (rural?) town that you can cycle to which has cool cafes and stuff, while Vassar is in an (apparently) pretty **** town with not much greenery and activities so they just stay on campus or take a 1.5 hour ride to NY. Is this a big issue?
The suburb (Arlington) of Poughkeepsie is small but pleasant, with a handful of shops, cafes & restaurants a 2 minute walk outside the gates. There aren’t many activities (not sure what that includes), but it is easy to get to the movies, etc. if you want to. There is plenty of greenery around Vassar
Weather: It's freezing in Minnesota. But it's also pretty cold in NY. Is the winter depression thing real? I'm really worried about this because coming from a tropical country where it's pretty much summer all year round, I think that if the cold really makes you depressed, I could be in for a real miserable time.
That nobody can really answer. Minnesota is really cold, but at some point cold is cold and if you hate it there’s nothing anybody can do about it. Imo (based in large part on having lived in a lot of different climates) most people adapt to whatever they are in - and college students are generally pretty good at finding the fun part of whatever weather. But: if you are not generally an adaptable person you might be best off looking at colleges closer to the equator…
Culture: I've read on websites that Carleton has a more silly/unpretentious/grounded feel (especially because of the mid-western stereotype) while Vassar has a more artsy/hippy/sometimes pretentious feel. And I always feel like there's a slightly higher percentage of students who rave about how great Carleton is (and a slightly higher percentage of students that complain that Vassar is 'pretentious') From the videos I've watched, Carleton students do seem a little more silly/take themselves less seriously, but I know it's dangerous to generalise especially since every school will have good and bad types. But as I said, if anyone could tell me the general feel/vibe they got from visiting/studying at Carleton and Vassar, I'll be really grateful.
I can’t answer this one very well, as I’ve never been to Carleton. I will say that it is not a widely held view that mid-westerners are sillier than other regions though solid and unpretentious is a typical view. The Vassar students that I know are not at all pretentious (at least, imo!), but I only know a few dozen. Carleton alums do tend to be very passionate about their experience at their school! Since you brought in regional stereotypes, the understated New Englander might have some relevance for Vassar: the school definitely does not do hype in any of its marketing or student recruitment. If Carleton is “Come! You’ll love us!” then Vassar is “You’re welcome if you’d like to be here”
Reputation and academic strength: Carleton generally has a higher ranking and a higher average SAT score, higher selectivity, and I'm wondering if that means that the reputation it has is slightly better? I know that both schools will give me a great education but as I can't decide, I guess every little difference counts.
Vassar would have more of a ‘name’ - probably b/c of it’s status from it’s ‘seven sister’ days (it was the sister school for Yale, but declined to merge with them back in the 1960’s and went co-ed instead). Really, I don’t think that the differences in ranking or SAT scores or ‘name’ are meaningful for you (or any individual student). Both schools are academically rigorous and somewhat intense learning environments and offer excellent college experiences.
I think that more important for you might be to consider whether you would be happier on a more or less conservative campus, in a more or less structured program, at a more or less extroverted place?
Campus: Carleton also has a student farm if that helps! There's actually an interest house dedicated to it (called Farm House) and students can be hired to work in the Arb and keep it beautiful! Our campus is actually amazing though. I'll cover it more in the weather section, but Carleton in the fall and spring is green and absolutely gorgeous. Students ride bikes, play frisbee, and study in the grass and everywhere on campus is walkable.
Neighbourhood: Downtown Northfield is actually right next to Carleton so you don't even need a bike to get there! Northfield is a super sweet town filled with your local shops and your not-so-local shops (yes we have a Target). You should also keep in mind that we're in the same town as St. Olaf so it's very much a college town. We have bus that you can get on for free to take you around Northfield and you can take another bus to get you to the Twin Cities and Mall of America in 45 minutes.
Weather: Don't worry about it. Plenty of Carls are from tropical/all-year-long warm places and everyone adapts well. Seasonal Affective Disorder (the winter depression syndrome you mentioned) is a real thing but Carleton's Student Health and Counseling center is well prepared to help students who may come down with that. They have light boxes that you can sit in front of for 15 minutes and you'll come out feeling much better.
Winter at Carleton is really fun. Carleton knows it’s cold and really makes an effort to make winter not as miserable as one would think. We actually flood the Bald Spot (the big grassy field in the middle of campus) every winter term to make ice skating rinks that are open 24/7. You can rent skates for free and go skating whenever you want!
Culture: I go to Carleton right now and fun-loving, unpretentious, and motivated are words that I'd definitely use to describe our population. Other words may include: awesome, warm, energetic, curious, interested, genuine, exciting, and unexpectedly talented. We students rave about Carleton BECAUSE we love it so much here. It's just fantastic.
Reputation and academic strength: Carleton has a great reputation with grad schools/law schools/med schools because our students graduate as curious, well-prepared, ready-to-take-on-the-world individuals. :)
Hey everyone, wow, thanks so much for your posts, they were immensely helpful. Vassar and Carleton both seem like such great places (which is why I’m having so much trouble deciding between the two!)
Campus. thanks for sharing that link, collegemom3717. Vassar wins this one haha I never knew the Hudson Valley area was so beautiful.
Neighbourhood: Yeah, Northfield does sound awesome and I've always kinda got that feeling from all the comments and websites I've been reading, so no surprise there. I've changed my mind slightly about how bad Poughkeepsie is though. Carleton wins this one, but by a smaller margin than it used to.
Weather. Okay, I agree, the whole point about going to America is to adapt. Thehangingtree: Fall and Spring term at Carleton sound great, but it's the winter term I'm worried about. Though like you said, there are fun activities to do in the snow that I've never gotten to do in Singapore so that'll help me cope! But I think Vassar still wins this one.
Culture: What you guys said makes a lot of sense. Both schools will have wonderful people, though I definitely do get the "come! you'll love it here!" vs "you're welcome if you'd like it here" feel from Carleton and Vassar respectively haha. Is there any reason for this difference? I mean, does it reflect anything about the culture/type of students at each school? Or does it just reflect different attitudes to student recruitment?
Reputation and academic strength: I feel I'll get a great education in both places (I won't lie though, my parents are pretty concerned about the prestige issue, since Singaporean employers in general are pretty 'brand-conscious'.) But from what the two of you said, Carleton and Vassar both have good reputations so I guess it can't be a deciding factor.
So, still, I can’t decide as no school really stands out to me a lot more than the other (I’m just really excited to come to both). What would you guys say are bigger factors/factors that I didn’t but should take into consideration? Or rather, how would you guys go about deciding between these two fabulous schools?
in a more or less structured program? Carleton has a strong set of distribution requirements, designed to give you a lot of flexibility but making sure that you have a well rounded college background, whereas Vassar has minimal requirements beyond your major. You can see the difference in their graduation requirements:
(the Carleton one is easier to read- Vassar’s sounds very complicated, but basically boils down to 1 quantitative course, 1 freshman writing course, a 2nd language up to medium level, and at least 1/4 of your classes in a different division than your major (divisions are Arts, Foreign Languages, Natural Sciences and Social Sciences).
at a more or less extroverted place?
I don’t want to overstate this, because I don’t think it’s an extreme difference, and I am confident that there are plenty of very outgoing people and plenty or introspective people at both colleges. But I suspect that the underlying tone difference between “come! you’ll love it here!” vs “you’re welcome if you’d like to be here” probably has some truth to it. What do you think, @thehangingtree?
would you be happier on a more or less conservative campus?
Again, I don’t think it’s a huge difference, but I think that Carleton may be a bit more conservative than Vassar.
I didn’t mention diversity, but if it matters the Carleton student body is slightly more balanced in male:female ratio, and is slightly whiter and wealthier than the Vassar student body.
Hi collegemom3717, thanks again for your insights, these are important areas that I haven’t thought about.
Hmm, I will be getting a fully paid scholarship from my home country to study sociology, but I’m also very interested in other fields that aren’t necessarily related to sociology. So the flexible/structured programmes at Carleton and Vassar is definitely an important difference between the two but I can see the strengths of both and I think I wouldn’t mind it either way so I’ll put this on hold.
I would like a culture that is friendly and actively open to meeting new people and getting to know them. At the same time, though, I think that a place that is excessively loud and extroverted could make me clam up so I think I’d like a school that’s on the ‘friendly’ side of things but not too extreme? Would you say Vassar or Carleton is more extroverted?
I want a campus that is very accepting of diversity and LGBT and different cultures, but hopefully somewhere that is not too into partying and drinking and drugs because first of all my parents are worried and second of all I don’t really enjoy drinking and drugs personally. What does it mean to be more conservative in the US? (I’m taking the word to mean like, opposite of uninhibited/wild but I’m not sure if that’s accurate.
Haha well as an asian Chinese who will be from an international country, I will definitely be looking for a school that is as diverse (and respecting of diversity) as possible.
I’m the mom of a senior at Carleton and I would not characterize Carleton as conservative (politically or inhibition-wise). From what I have seen, the students are politically liberal (though there are exceptions) and VERY friendly, but NOT necessarily all extroverted. What has struck me is how accepting students are of differences. Some people regularly drink and do drugs, but most are very respectful of others who choose not to indulge there.
When it comes to drugs & alcohol, you can choose to reside on a DF (drug free) floor of a dorm. My son did this his freshman year and it was wonderful. The students really bonded, since they were not going out partying and drinking. As it seems is typical of Carleton, the friends he made freshman year are those he is closest to now.
The campus is very accepting of LGBT and there are quite a few students from Asian countries enrolled.
Carleton students seem less concerned about appearances than most other colleges I’ve seen (I teach at a college, myself). I really appreciate this, but it’s a personal value, obviously. They work very hard at their studies, but non-competitively, and they often play hard, too.
It’s too bad you can’t visit the campuses, since the feeling of different campuses are very different and some just “fit” with some people more than others.
By the way, as a mom, I’d take what the parents say with less weight compared to what the students who are actually there (or who were there) are saying. It’s not that the students are necessarily representative of all the students, but they really will have a different/better idea about what goes on on campus than parents do (for example, I live many states away from Minnesota, and though I’ve visited & spoken to my son for the past 4 years about it, I am not in as good a position as students to tell you what it is like; the same, I’d think, would be true for most parents’ views).
My D was set on applying ED to Vassar, after visiting and researching at least 15 comparable LACs. After her final college visit, to Carleton the summer before senior year, she changed her mind and applied to Carleton ED instead and is very happy with her decision. For her, it came down to perceived differences in the student bodies - she thought the kids at Carleton seemed happier, friendlier, and more excited to be there; and that the vibe at Vassar had more of an East Coast, hipster, clove cigarette feel to it. She did love Vassar, but she decided she loved Carleton more. Feel free to pm me if you’d like additional details.
OP, please don’t forget to post your final decision. You have rec’d some great responses, and either way you can’t go wrong. We will be curious to learn which school you decide to attend.
y’know as the only other mom who had responded to the OP when you posted your warning not to put too much weight on parent’s opinions, I am finding it hard not to take your comment personally, momcinco. The OP asked for ways to differentiate the two schools. Most enrolled students, and most enrolled parents, will be either very very happy or seriously unhappy. I tried to respond factually to the OP’s specific queries and to add some other possible areas of difference between them, without in anyway suggesting that one was better or worse than the other. The two schools are more alike than not- especially the great academics and smart, engaged students- so it will really be nuances that tip it for the OP.
I really agree with your comment that “the feeling of different campuses are very different and some just “fit” with some people more than others” (that was CodyChesnutt’s D’s experience, and has been the experience with my D’s, as well as those students that I have worked with on the college process). I think that is particularly true of Vassar- that it is a ‘fit’ school. That’s why I was trying to give the OP areas to think what might fit her/him.
I also agree that s/he really can’t go wrong: they are two great choices, and we will be interested to her what the final decision is.
Hey guys, I’m really grateful for all your comments, they have been immensely helpful to me.
I think I’ll take your advice and go for the drug free housing, my parents (and the organisation that’s paying for my education) will probably be a lot happier that way xD So I guess from what you guys have told me, there’s really nothing to worry about in terms of drugs, drinking, or diversity in both Vassar and Carleton.
As for the other things I’m considering now: Right now the major thing that Carleton has going for it is that the culture seems like something that I would enjoy slightly more than Vassar. However, I am aware that I don’t need (and it’s not possible) for the whole school to ‘fit in’ with a generalised culture that I like - I just need a couple of people that I like and will get along with, and I do believe that these people will exist in both schools. Likewise, I think in both Vassar and Carleton there will be people that I won’t fit in with and that’s completely fine. So I’m not sure how much this perceived culture advantage Carleton has over Vassar should hold sway over my decision.
On the other hand, Vassar has the weather going for it, the campus, and I guess to a small extent the state it’s in. Another thing that I don’t think I’ve mentioned before is that I would want to take up varsity squash (I played in high school for my school & country) and only Vassar has a varsity women’s squash team. I don’t think any of these are particularly big factors (especially since I’m totally fine with trying something new and not play squash, there are so many cool new clubs to join at Carleton and Vassar), but they’re definitely things that counteract Carleton’s ‘culture pull’ for me.
Also I’ve heard from some people that although Carleton has a higher ranking, Vassar is equally well-known (if not more so) because it’s very established with a rich history (seven sisters’ school or something) so I think this factor is tied as well.
I’m sorry if it seems like I’m still super unsure (I am) despite all your help and insights haha. I also wish I could’ve visited and made up my mind from first-hand experience Don’t worry, I will definitely post my eventual decision (gosh how I wish I were at that point now) here. I totally agree that I’ve gotten absolutely wonderful responses, and I’m incredibly grateful for that.
Haha yup, I did watch a lot of the Carleton and Vassar videos, and that’s where I formed the initial impression that Carleton was sillier than Vassar (I really liked the Carleton videos, whereas the Vassar videos left no particular impression on me.)
I’ve (finally) made my decision - I think it’s slightly ironic that I’m posting this in the Carleton College forum (no hate please haha) but I’ve eventually decided to go with Vassar.
It was my first choice before I did any research, when my attraction to the school was based entirely on gut feel. After I did research I started liking Carleton more and more (because it really is an amazing, amazing school), but ultimately after talking to people from Vassar and Carleton and the people here at collegeconfidential, I think that my heart still lies with Vassar.
Thanks so much everyone for the help and the wonderful responses I got.
Best of luck to you. It sounded all along like that was the direction you were leaning and when you have two such great choices, following your heart is the way to go. Enjoy!
Also, I’m writing down the different things I’ve learnt about the two colleges that are major factors for me, hopefully you guys can comment and add to it, or maybe it’ll be helpful for some? (I don’t know, the decision deadline is coming up pretty soon).
though solid and unpretentious is a typical view. The Vassar students that I know are not at all pretentious (at least, imo!), but I only know a few dozen. Carleton alums do tend to be very passionate about their experience at their school! Since you brought in regional stereotypes, the understated New Englander might have some relevance for Vassar: the school definitely does not do hype in any of its marketing or student recruitment. If Carleton is “Come! You’ll love us!” then Vassar is “You’re welcome if you’d like to be here”