Carnegie Mellon vs Lehigh University

College Search & Selection
1

Recently, I was accepted to Lehigh University and Carnegie Mellon University for electrical and computer engineering. I thought it was an easy choice (CMU is #2 in ECE whereas Lehigh is only in the top 40 I’m pretty sure). However, after visiting them both, my thoughts have changed. There are many pros that come with Lehigh that CMU doesn’t offer. I will list them all down below as well as my stats for comparison:

Stats:
1550 SAT
4.733 W
4.0 UW

Lehigh University
Accepted into IBE honors program (get a degree in both business and engineering, get to pick classes first, very high job placement, must keep GPA over 3.33). Apparently the curriculum is hard but not as hard as CMU’s.
Only 10 minutes away from home.
Got the Trustees Scholar (half-tuition) and a grant, bringing my total to about 11k a year with commuting. (I think I may live there for the first year, which costs around 15k extra.)
Campus at Lehigh is absolutely stunning and massive (over 2000 acres). It literally looks like it came out of Harry Potter. However, Bethlehem isn’t as big as Pittsburgh.
More to do when it comes to athletics and clubs. Better parties and better social life (not as important to me but still somewhat important).
Students seem much happier and less stressed.
Starting salary for electrical engineer in IBE program is over 80k on average which is higher than CMU’s starting salary (idk if this is right).
Research opportunities are there and many students participate in them. However, seeing as CMU is better academically and has better professors it definitely has better research opportunities.

Lehigh Stats:
1380 Average SAT
25% Acceptance Rate (I think it was higher this year because of COVID though)
9:1 Student-Faculty Ratio
5k Undergrads

CMU
Accepted into the Electrical and Computer Engineering program, which is supposedly extremely rigorous (I value that).
Over 4 hours from home.
Got a 50k grant, bringing my total to around 27k per year. This will likely rise a bit as I will have to buy clothes, food, gas to travel, etc. A trip down to Pitt from my house takes almost $80 in gas. So, it is more than double the price of Lehigh University.
The campus looks ok, and I thought it looked good at first. But after seeing Lehigh’s architecture and beautiful campus, CMU now looks quite ugly. It is also extremely small compared to Lehigh, but has Pittsburgh surrounding it.
Literally a joke of an athletics program. Students are not as involved in clubs as Lehigh because they are supposedly more focused on academics.
Students seem very stressed out and depressed. I saw basically no one doing anything walked onto campus during the week, whereas Lehigh was much more lively.
The starting salary for electrical and computer engineers is the around the same of those coming out of the IBE program at Lehigh.
Research opportunities are decently better than at Lehigh (I wanted to do some research in my undergrad).

CMU Stats:
1510 Average SAT
15% Acceptance Rate
7:1 Student-Faculty Ratio
7k Undergrads

After visiting them both, my gut feeling was to go to Lehigh because of all the benefits. However, after thinking about it, I would be giving up a better and more rigorous education if I committed to Lehigh. But does that really matter if at Lehigh I would be getting two degrees, making the same amount if not more, having half the debt, and getting a better social life? Let me know what y’all think because I am having an extremely hard time choosing.

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If you live at Lehigh, your cost will be $26K/year. Living at CMU will cost you $27K/year.

Are you certain you will want to live at home after your first year at Lehigh? Even if you do, you will incur some costs for car maintenance & gas + food, so while you will not spend anywhere near the $15K cost of on-campus life at Lehigh, you will spend some amount of money. You will not ‘need’ to have a car at CMU, so you could subtract that savings in your calculation.

I am not sure why you mentioned clothing & meals as an additional cost of attending CMU, as I suspect you would need food & clothing while attending either school.

It sounds as though you prefer Lehigh for the student body and social life, and if you know you will be happier there, that it not a bad reason to choose a school. CMU is intense, and I think your impressions of the student body at each school are not far off the mark. CMU’s reputation exceeds Lehigh’s without a doubt. Best of luck and congrats on two excellent admits.

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Thanks! The reason I mention food and clothing is because since I am living at home my parents will basically pay for food and they mostly buy me clothes. However, they probably won’t just funnel me money to Pittsburgh to buy clothes if you know what I mean.

4

Lehigh reports the IBE average salary last year was $77,340.
Undergraduate Outcomes Summary
Lehigh

The B.S. ECE median starting salary at CMU last year was $111,000, same as the previous year.

CMU First Destination Outcomes 2019-2020
CMU

You’d make up the $80 per trip in gas pretty quickly :stuck_out_tongue:

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Wow! I did not know the difference was that high.

6

I agree with this.

It seems clear that you prefer Lehigh. I’d go there. You’re clearly an excellent student and will do well wherever you go. Go to the place that makes you happy. However, I would 100% forget the idea that you will move home after your first year. If you love it there, you are not going to want to live at home, trust me. CMU isn’t exactly known for a laid back atmosphere.

Lehigh does have one of the most beautiful campuses I’ve ever seen. As far as earnings post grad, College Factual (can’t link)shows about a $3,000 difference in average earnings. The fact that you got in CMU in the first place and your scholarship at Lehigh shows that you are going to do well for yourself wherever you go.

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Never believe starting salary stats when choosing a college. Those numbers are notoriously inflated by schools. Entry level salaries are determined by the local market. And, no, companies DON’T pay big bucks for entry level positions with a high turnover rate. If an employer is going to pay a higher salary, they can attract an experienced professional to do the job. This has, sadly, led students to making bad financial decisions. Go with the school that costs the least. EE is a ridiculously employable degree.

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Links to supporting facts?

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9

I think what he means is that the area you work determines your salary. So, while Carnegie Mellon grads mostly go and work at companies in California or New York where the cost of living is higher and people are paid more, Lehigh grads tend to live in less costly areas which is why the pay scale is sometimes off. For example, Lehigh grads are usually snatched up by ppnl or a local company and then eventually get a job at Google or Microsoft etc. after a few years. Since they live in the Lehigh Valley where the cost of living is lower, their starting salary of 80k is a decent amount. CMU grads usually go straight to a top company (not saying Lehigh grads can’t but like I said they usually take a local job because they pay a lot for our area). So I’m the end CMU grads usually end up making more but also paying more due to the areas they live in.

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10

Congrats on great options! If you have any mentors in the field, consider getting their take on it. Good luck!

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11

a few things to think about

  • you wont get to enjoy the activities and campus of Lehigh if you live at home, assume you will be on campus and budget accordingly
  • the starting salary info is a red herring, how you do over your career matters more. Guessing you will be successful coming from either,
  • if you want to work in high profile tech company in Calif like GOOG or hot startup chose CMU. You will get out here (I live in Silcon Valley) and make a ton of money. You might hate it tho - not that fun of a place
  • if you like your local area, and want to settle there, then chose on the other factors
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12

The chart above includes graduate students as well as undergrads. If you look at starting salaries for undergrads only, the median becomes 85k which not so different from Lehigh’s.
According to Payscale’s 2020 report, Lehigh actually ranks more highly than CMU (23 vs. 32). Best Universities and Colleges | Payscale

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13

Not if the OP is going to end up going into software engineering (which many ECE grads elect to do). CS and CS-adjacent majors at CMU are typically targeting Big N, where total comp for entry level software devs starts at about 150k for NY/SF/SEA. Some of them aim even higher, and shoot for niche unicorns or top prop shops/hedge funds, where total comp usually hovers around 250k or so for entry-level devs, and can sometimes top 300k (these positions are usually based in Chicago or New York). The most authoritative source for high-end tech compensation (at all levels) is probably levels.fyi. I know it was eye-opening for me (helped prompt me to get a new job that paid much higher).

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The $150K is not something that’s typical, if the CMU starting salary of $110K median is to be believed, most are not getting $150K, and many times people will report the base salary, bonus percentage, sign on bonus if any, and stock, which some entry-level kids get, but many don’t. These companies have budget and it’s not $1.5M for ten new hire grads. Think more $300K for 3 and the hiring managers and HR figure out how to divide based on interview performance, location and experience (say internships).

Anyway OP, I thing your really negative vibes you’re getting around CMU, words like ugly campus, stressed out students, go with Lehigh.

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Yes, that’s total compensation, which is the term I used. Virtually ALL L3 SWEs or SDE1 (these are the entry level software engineer position titles) at Big N in the United States get stock compensation and/or bonuses. It is inappropriate to just look at base salary when we start talking about high-end tech positions (which most CMU CS/CS adjacent students are shooting for). Levels.fyi is the most authoritative source, once again. It requires contributors to show proof of their comp and share other details.

EDIT: qualified the “ALL” above with “virtually” because there might be some unusual edge cases I have never heard about and aren’t documented.

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Lehigh is gorgeous but is not CMU. That said you will spend day after day there for years so go to where you like.

I’m being cynical here but why not go to a CC. If you want to live at home or are worried about the cost of gas to Pittsburgh…I mean this is a time for you to grow and get involved. If you need to live at home to save money go to a cc for two years.

If you want to grow and experience college without mom and dad as a crutch, make friends, get involved…go to CMU. otherwise every time something is amiss and you’ll run home.

College is not just about class. But it appears you are wanting to make it so. In that sense you should absolutely go to Pittsburgh. If you are worried about gas, buy a Prius. CMU will cause you homesickness but it’s how you grow up. Go there!!

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The OP has also considered things outside of class like social life, research, and seen happiness of students when visiting the campuses. It’s pretty obvious the OP feels a better fit at Lehigh and that’s probably where he/she should go. Growing up doesn’t mean you have to be miserable doing it.

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As I said, I was being cynical. I know he likes Lehigh better - I was getting on the point of the better social and athletic scene, yet he wants to live home.

I get some can’t afford to live on campus - but this doesn’t appear to be the case.

Living at home vs. embedding yourself in the campus community - from the first time you walk into a dorm to the first club meeting to the late night study session - all happen when you live on campus.

He’s monetarily concerned - even pointing out the gas costs to get to PIttsburgh - but we don’t know if he’s monetarily constrained.

It’s simply my belief - that when one goes to a residential college but lives home - they are giving up so much of the reason for attending the school to begin with.

That’s simply the point I’m trying to make.

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Congrats! Both great schools. I will echo the pure beauty of the Lehigh campus, one of the prettiest I’ve seen.

For your purposes, the IBE program turns Lehigh into a Lehigh + if you will (and Lehigh regular is just great). Having that dual degree of engineering and business is very appealing if you aspire to a career beyond the fully technical side. Knowing how things work, learning how to solve problems (really the core to any engineering discipline), and then applying them to the business world in a practical way is quite compelling. Their IBE program is highly selective and unusual. And they attract lots of marquee employers who seek a kid with that blend of skills.

Anecdotal but makes the point. Have a buddy who’s son just graduated and was hired by one of the top and most influential PE shops in the world. One that typically doesn’t hire out of UG. It’s a very unusual program with some intriguing outcomes (beyond salary). Places really well in NYC if that’s of interest.

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I went to Lehigh 100 years ago. LOL. It still is GORGEOUS. With what you stated, it will be awesome for you. (I can’t imagine living at home during college, though. :wink: )Also, you’ll get amazing exercise just walking around campus with all of the hills. Hopefully they’ve reengineered the steps on the hill to be more user friendly.

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