<p>Hi Folks,
I wonder if anyone is familiar with and can comment on the CWRU ("Case") music program. Is it a "stand alone" department, or is it one and the same with the "Case-CIM combined program." Is it suitable for one interested in the area of classical performance, or tailored more to historical and other noninstrumental studies. Any major strengths or weaknesses? General perceptions welcomed.
(As a less relevant aside, I must say that driving through the area, one is certainly struck by the beauty of the University Circle campus area and its numerous cultural institutions)</p>
<p>Thanks for any input you may provide... drd</p>
<p>CIM students audition there. CWRU students are admitted at case and may choose to study music. Many of the music performance teachers at Case also teach at CIM. On my son's instrument, the CIM students had a different teacher than the Case students, but both were members of the Cleveland Symphony. It seems like a good program to me, although he attends elsewhere.</p>
<p>Case maintains its own faculty in Musicology and Music Ed, but most of their performance majors take applied lessons and music theory from the CIM faculty. Performance majors at CIM take music history and general education electives at Case. </p>
<p>Case offers a BA in music, which puts a bit more emphasis on a liberal arts core curriculum than does the BM offered by CIM. A performance major at Case would spend roughly half their time in music classes of one sort or another, whereas it would be more like three-quarters for a CIM student. CIM audition requirements are often a bit more specific than those for Case.</p>
<p>There are also double degree possibilities resulting in a BM from CIM and a BA in something else from Case, but those are usually 5-year programs.</p>
<p>Thanks for the kind input. I'm somewhat familiar with the University, and certainly with CIM. Such a cooperative relationship would seem to provide a quality learning setting for a performance oriented music major (with a touch of liberal arts for good measure). Any sense as to whether it is particularly difficult to gain admission?</p>
<p>Unless you are talking about the dual-degree program, in which case you apply to both simultaneously, you need to decide whether to apply to CIM or CWRU. </p>
<p>Admission to CIM is based mostly on the audition. They are among the top programs in the country on some instruments so the competition can be pretty tough. I believe they accept between a quarter and a third of applicants who complete an audition, varying by department. Perhaps a bit less for really popular programs like flute and soprano vocal majors.</p>
<p>Music majors at CWRU first apply to the main school, which has reasonably high academic standards. Mid-50th percentiles on SAT's are 580-700 verbal and 620-720 math, with 68% in the top tenth of their high school class and 91% in the top quarter. Then they need to audition to become a music major. I was told by a CIM faculty member that the bar is not quite as high on the auditions for CWRU as it is for CIM, but I don't know how much of a difference there is or whether the folks at CWRU would even agree with that statement.</p>
<p>While I don't know much about voice programs, I can tell you that the one at CIM does not seem to be getting much attention from the top aspring voice majors around here. They are looking at places like Oberlin, Indiana U, U of Michigan, CCM, and Rice. The ones more interested in choral singing are looking at Westminster Choir College and St. Olaf. </p>
<p>You might want to start a new thread with a more descriptive title and ask the question again. There are a lot of students and parents who can give you a better answer but who may not notice your question under a CWRU thread.</p>
<p>Here I am. My daughter reports that the voice dept at CIM is not that great. They have no opera theater. She says there are a lot better places.<br>
Thus says the Diva!</p>
My D is at Case. Each program can stand alone: BMus at CIM and BA-Music or BS-Music Education at Case. Also, a student can dual enroll at both schools and pursue (typically in 5 years) both a BMus at CIM and any degree offered by Case (BA-Music, engineering, languages, sciences, etc.)</p>
<p>Think of CIM as a conservatory like Julliard or Curtis. Case is a university with broad curricula offerings.</p>
<p>Even in the stand alone scenario, CIM will students will take some required classes that are only offered at Case and Case music majors will take classes at CIM.</p>
<p>There are only 1 or 2 ensembles that are restricted to CIM-only and some that have students of both schools.</p>
<p>Applied lessons for Case students are taught by CIM faculty but the lessons are for fewer minutes and sometimes certain instructors are restricted to CIM students only.</p>
<p>Dear WS17,
Is that to say that your D is a Music major at Case? If so, has the experience been a positive one? Has it allowed her as intense a music exposure as she had hoped for (and permitted adequate performance opportunity in spite of the liberal arts requirement)?</p>
<p>One thing to take into consideration is the objectives of your child's attending University or Conservatory.</p>
<p>If they without a doubt want to be a professional musician and have a one track mind, Conservatories will give them their best chance to get there, even though it still is very small. University will give them an education while still becoming a good player.</p>
<p>But dont think your child will become as good a musician at a liberal arts university taking Math, English, History while the student at Conservatory is taking Music all day.</p>
<p>So one is not better than the other just a means to a different end.</p>
<p>I disagree somewhat with Rockford in that I don't think conservatory study necessarily leads to a different result than a liberal arts college. I know unemployed conservatory graduates as well as some who went from music ed to the big time. I even know of one person in a major symphony without any college level study at all. </p>
<p>A person with innate talent will have that no matter where he studies. (Remember the movie "Amadeus"?) One person may need 10 times longer to perfect a piece as another. Practicing the longest and spending the most hours on the music books is not a ticket to success, IMO. I do not believe a liberal arts university is an impediment to becoming a professional musician because true talent will blossom anywhere, given the slightest bit of nurturing. You either have "IT" or you don't.</p>
<p>your talking exceptions, I am talking rules.</p>
<p>Certainly most people going to University or Conservatory for music performance will fail to ever play their instrument for a living. Nature of the beast.</p>
<p>But of the employed musicians in major orchestras, last survey I saw was something like 90% attended conservatory. Some of this is connections. But mostly you just can not expect to get as far part time as full time. Yes talent will out, so there can be exceptions. But we are not talking the rare prodigy, because they probably went to Julliard at 8. Two very good musicians of similar talent one becomes a liberal arts student at a good university the other attends Conservatory, little doubt who graduates the better musician in 90% of cases.</p>
<p>There are clear advantages to getting a more rounded education, but coming out a better musician is not one of them.</p>
<p>But I do like the creativity of calling on a movie as your "evidence" that there are exceptions.</p>
<p>As Rockford points out, you need to think about your objectives. If you want to maximize your chance at getting one of a handful of jobs as a symphony player or an international soloist, then conservatories have the best track record. As Rockford also points out, most of the people who follow this route will fail.</p>
<p>When you look at statistics like that 90% number, you also have to ask what is meant by a conservatory. I think there is little disagreement that a place like Curtis or Juilliard would qualify. However, it seems to be the fashion these days for almost any college music department with a performance major and a large donor to rename itself the <donor's name="" here=""> Conservatory of Music. Where do you draw the line? More to the point, where did the person who compiled the 90% statistic draw the line?</donor's></p>
<p>While it can be informed by such statistics, the choice of where best to study is a very individual decision that should be influenced by many, many factors. For one person, the path to that coveted symphony job may well lie through a conservatory (whatever that is these days.) Another might need mental stimulation in other fields to prevent burning out on a 24/7 diet of music, even if that means four hours of practice a day rather than six.</p>