<p>I agree with you that it’s not necessary to attend a prestigious med school. In fact, in the career of a physician, the med school he attends is largely irrelevant.</p>
<p>What I was speaking to is attitude. My exact words were:</p>
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<p>Those who choose program B over program A simply because program B has lower requirements or those who avoid a top notch school like WashU Med simply because it has higher requirements are not those with the attitude of future leaders. Like I said, for some, they are satisfied with a 9 to 5 career of dealing with runny noses and back pain all day. For others, they want to publish 100 papers in their lifetime. For still others, they want to become the chairman of a department or a world-renowned surgeon. People have different goals and different attitudes. That’s why I wouldn’t say a program like WashU’s program is a must-avoid. But, it isn’t for everyone.</p>
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<p>This I don’t agree with. It’s more important than you think. Not as important as your USMLE score or your clinical grades. But, as important as having research or AOA status.</p>
<p>Selection criteria for residency: results of a national program directors survey. Green M, Jones P, Thomas JX Jr. Acad Med. 2009 Mar;84(3):362-7.</p>
<p>This would be a good citation for you to look at.</p>
<p>I just came off my plastic surgery rotation. For the most competitive specialties and even top programs in non-competitive specialties (such as if you are trying to get into UCSF for internal medicine), you will need every advantage you can get. I think it’s incredibly premature for a high schooler to be blowing off top med schools because he thinks it won’t matter in the end.</p>
<p>If you have decided that you would be happy with family medicine in New Mexico, then I will tell you that the med school you attend won’t matter. If you haven’t made that determination yet, then you should strive to do your best and aim for the moon.</p>
<p>I don’t understand the “You must go to school A if you want to have a prestigious position some time in the future” attitude. I also don’t understand the stereotype of “Anything less will send you to a family practice clinic in New Mexico”. </p>
<p>If you actually do take a look at some of the match lists of medical schools with BS/MD students, not all of the students are being sent to family medicine residencies in New Mexico, so why do you insinuate that anything short of a top 10 school will screw you over with anything prestigious? Are you also accounting for BS/MD programs that strictly focus on putting their grads into primary care specialties? What about DO students? Are they unable to become “future leaders” or anything significant simply because the school they graduate from isn’t in US News?</p>
<p>I’m happy with the medical school that I have a spot in. I’m also happy knowing the fact that I can apply out whenever I want. That doesn’t mean I’m interested in practicing family medicine in New Mexico, nor does it mean that anything I strive for will be out of reach. =|</p>
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<p>P.S. Now, I’m curious. What exactly is so wrong with wanting to go into Family Medicine? It’s as if these physicians only went into the specialty solely because they didn’t attend a top 10 medical school. That is what you’re saying. Not directly, but this is what I got out of those bits. </p>
<p>These are the people that end up teaching you at your top 10 medical school, and you show for it by throwing it back in their faces…belittling their jobs as physicians as nothing more than a “9 to 5 career of dealing with runny noses.” And all because they didn’t attend a top 10 medical school? Nice.</p>
<p>Norcalguy, I appreciate your response. I agree and disagree with what you’re saying. You’re saying that because I want to avoid a completely ridiculous GPA/MCAT requirement, I’m not an abitious person? I think you’re wrong in that sense. The reason being that the bs/md programs are there to lower stress for the person and guarantee them med school. WashU does not do either of those things. Getting a 36 MCAT is not that easy. However, if I went to an average bsmd program, I could breeze my way into med school. The med school may not be the best, but as I said before I know countless people from mediocre med schools getting residencies in plastic surgery and nuclear radiology. It can be done.</p>
<p>Again, it’s not about the med school. It’s about the attitude. Your original post stated that WashU’s program was a program everyone should avoid because of its high requirements. My point is that it is a high risk-high reward program that would be fitting for those who aim for those high rewards (the assumption is that it is a lot easier to be a 9 to 5 primary care doc than to be chairman of the plastic surgery department). It’s funny to me to see all the same high schoolers who say they want to be a Hopkins trained neurosurgeon shy away from a program because it requires a 3.8 GPA lol Do they understand that in the long path to neurosurgery, getting a 3.8 and a 36 is but a drop in the bucket? If your attitude is that you want to be a neurosurgeon, then you should aim high. </p>
<p>There’s nothing wrong with being a family practice doctor. In fact, in our current healthcare climate, those physicians are most needed. But, I don’t think even you would argue that it is a lot easier to become a family practice physician than it is to become a plastic surgeon. Hence, the path you choose specifically depends on your goals. In fact, many BS/MD programs have the explicit goal of training primary care docs. So, it actually does matter right now whether you want to be a 9 to 5 primary doc or whether you want to be a top neurosurgeon. Many students are just fine with being a doctor who works a normal amount of hours and can have a decent family life. For others, they want something more out of their careers.</p>
<p>As I explained earlier, for a top 5 med school, the requirements of WashU’s program are actually not ridiculous. Getting a 3.8/36 will NOT be the toughest part of applying to a top 5 med school. </p>
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<p>There’s the way I would frame it: </p>
<p>Think about the long path to being a physician. 4 years of college, 4 years of med school, and then residency. If we were to define the total amount of stress of that path as 10, then the relative contributions to that stress would be college (1), med school (3), residency (6). Let’s say a BS/MD program cuts that college stress in half. So, now your total cumulative stress in the path of becoming a physician is 9.5 instead of 10. Big freakin’ deal. </p>
<p>Look at the big picture. That’s what I’m trying to get you guys to do. My original post at this thread was to guide you in choosing a program that fits YOU and your goals. I find a lot of you guys are choosing suboptimal colleges and programs simply because you want “lower stress” and the “guarantee.” In the end, you will have made a big sacrifice for very little reward (9.5 stress points vs. 10 stress points). You are choosing to enter into medicine lol You don’t like a little bit of stress? Don’t become a doctor. Going the traditional route is not that stressful. It is actually an appropriate amount of stress in that it gets you ready for med school, which in turn gets you ready for residency. It only appears stressful because most of you guys come from high schools that you could sleepwalk through. Yes, college is more stressful than that. But, as I have been explaining, you need that stress to keep you sharp.</p>
<p>If you look at my post #9 on this thread, you can see that I only offer guidelines. I never tell a person they shouldn’t go to a specific program X. I let people make their own decisions based on their own career goals. </p>
<p>The problem is that many people are so desperate for some transparency and objectivity in this application process that they oversimplify things. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “your major doesn’t matter,” “your undergrad doesn’t matter,” “your med school doesn’t matter,” “it’s all about your GPA/MCAT/USMLE scores” on this forum. Do you think we’re idiots who don’t know the difference between Harvard and Podunk University? Or between English and chemical engineering? I’m sorry but this process is very subjective. There are a lot of factors that are taken into account. Engineering majors tend to not have as good social skills as English majors. That’s why they have to make it up in other facets of their application. So, it appears we take 3.7 GPA English majors over 3.7 GPA engineering majors. In reality, we’re taking 3.7 GPA English majors with excellent social skills over 3.7 GPA engineering majors with poor social skills. Now, the 3.7 engineering major with great social skills? He’s still top dog. </p>
<p>My point is not to get so desperate in trying to objectify this process of becoming a doctor that you will hang onto anything objective. As I said before, using USMLE scores or residency lists or program requirements to judge a program would be fallacious, even if those are seemingly objective measures. Objective measures used incorrectly are still incorrect. Instead, I implore you guys to be choosing programs that fit YOUR own needs and goals. This process is meant to be subjective. So, don’t be afraid to use some common sense.</p>
<p>I thought people on CC were saying that your undergrad school’s irrelevant. But, what you said makes sense at least as far as a surgeon is concerned I imagine.</p>
<p>You learn very little about the practice of medicine in med school. If you become a surgeon, your surgery skills are learned in residency. If you become an internal med doctor, your knowledge is gained through your internal med residency.</p>
<p>It’s not the fact someone attended Harvard Med that makes them more likely to do something important. It’s the fact that person had the attitude to strive for Harvard Med. Those who go into college already anticipating that a 3.8 GPA will be too hard will end up with a 3.6 GPA and say, “I told you so.” It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy that I see at Cornell all the time. Students come in expecting Cornell to be some unfairly hard school because of its reputation, do poorly, and then say, “see? I knew Cornell was unfair!” Then I tell them that the average GPA at Cornell is actually a 3.4, in line with its peers. </p>
<p>Whether you will end up at Drexel or WashU or Harvard, strive to do your best. Aim for a 4.0, not a 3.8 or a 3.5. Aim for a 45 on the MCAT, not a 36 or a 30. </p>
<p>One of my favorite quotes:
“People don’t fail because they aim too high and miss, but because they aim too low and hit”</p>
<p>Yes, always aim at highest and do not forget to have fun doing so. That will lead you to choose place where you imagine yourself being happy. Do not forget, it is your life, 4 years in UG, 4 years in Med. School. 8 years is a huge chunk of either happiness and fun or frustration. Your choice. What fits one, might not fit another. Listen to yourself first, then listen to others, including us here… and set up the highest possible goal at any place that you go. You will be successful if you are happy with the place, actively being part of it and working hard at everything that you do.</p>