Cdns applying to US schools - Worth it?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I'm quite happy to be a student in Canada but wouldn't mind if I were accepted to say, oh... Princeton or something. :D</p>

<p>However, for admissions in the US, you need to take the SATs (I and IIs), an essay, recommendations, and maybe an interview. This is an exceeding cumbersome process when compared to Canada where you don't need anything outside of an application and good grades. </p>

<p>And as if that wasn't enough, tuition in Canada is vastly cheaper. Between scholarships and part-time jobs I can prolly (with my qualifications) get a bachelor's degree in Canada from a top school without any money from my parents. In the US, I, as an int'l student, would need huge amounts of parental contribution and take on a well paying part-time job and basically scrape together every dollar I can find - and that's if I can get financial aid (another headache of forms). </p>

<p>Also, it's not like the quality of education is much better in the US. I mean, sure there are a few more nice campuses but I don't know just how much "better" it is in the States than Canada.</p>

<p>I guess the only appeal of US schools is the pretige. Knowing that I have an opportunity to go to Princeton or Yale and get that "ticket for life" is, I think, something worth fighting for. I wouldn't want to live out my college career knowing that I had a shot at the top schools in the world but didn't take it. Moreover, my parents don't think I can get in, they've even joked about paying for all my tuition if I do (which I know they won't). You can say that my biggest motivation is essentially to prove my parents wrong (pretty silly, I know). </p>

<p>So the question is this: After considering the above factors, is it worth it for Canadians (or any int'l students for that matter) to attend or even apply to US schools?</p>

2

<p>If you want to stay in Canada, I'm sure it won't make that big of a difference to you, but if you want to eventually come to the US, an American degree would be better. What grade are you in? If you want to apply to American colleges, you have to start preparing really early. And it's not as easy as it sounds. Schools like McGill and U of T have maybe a 50% acceptance rate but the top schools in the US have about 1/10 of that acceptance rate for international students. It's very difficult to get in as an international student.</p>

3

<p>If you ask me, you can stick to Canadian universities for undergrad. You can consider US universities for grad studies (or later, the GRE's a pain too).</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the input guys.</p>

<p>Yeah, grad school is definitely easier to get into. But I'm thinking about med school after undergrad. So... yeah.</p>

<p>I'm going into my senior year and I'm preparing for the Oct SATs. If I decide whole-heartedly to go for US I think I can hustle and pull some apps together before the deadline. I mean, I have nothing to lose really, expect a few hundred dollars and some time. Actually, lots of time.</p>

5

<p>I've discussed such issues with Canadian graduate students in the US. Some of the general opinions that I've heard include the following:</p>

<ol>
<li>The most selective US schools (Ivies and equivalents) have higher admissions standards, on average, than the most selective Canadian schools (U of T, McGill, Waterloo, etc).<br></li>
</ol>

<p>You can see the difference in SAT scores. The top Canadian schools will generally admit US students with 600-range SATs, which roughly represents the top 20-25% of examinees. But a 600-range SAT, while certainly respectable, is not impressive by the standards of top US schools. The top US schools are generally looking for 700-range SATs, which roughly represents the top 5-10%. So you join a more "elite" group (as measured by the SAT anyway) at a top US school. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>The top US universities get relatively few Canadian applicants at the undergraduate level. Those that do apply often get a slight admissions preference, since they contribute to "geographic diversity". </p></li>
<li><p>The top US liberal arts colleges get almost zero Canadian applicants. Canadians don't understand about LACs, and find it hard to believe that small, undergraduate-only schools can compete successfully for the best students against big research universities . </p></li>
<li><p>Canadians are much more likely to come to the US for graduate or professional study, rather than for undergraduate study. US graduate and professional schools respect Canadian undergraduate degrees.</p></li>
</ol>

6

<p>
[quote]
2. The top US universities get relatively few Canadian applicants at the undergraduate level. Those that do apply often get a slight admissions preference, since they contribute to "geographic diversity".

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Interesting. What would you say would be the acceptance rate for Canadians to Caltech? (20% total acceptance rate).</p>

7

<p>From what I've seen (and I've attended colleges in 4 countries, including Canada), the best deal is to go to an American college for undergrad (the football, the spirit, the bucolic campuses are unmatched anywhere else), then go to grad school in Canada, Australia, or the UK, where the grad degree programs are much more streamlined than in the US).</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
the best deal is to go to an American college for undergrad

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sorry, but I just don't see how that makes sense.</p>

<p>The campuses are definitely more bucolic (whatever that means) but... an extra 30k for "spirit"?</p>

9

<p>Depends my friend i personaly prefer US university!!in fact i was going U of toronto but i visited and didn't like it...Canada has good universities but i think overall US are way better , so if you have the mony go to us if you don't stay in canada</p>

10

<p>Nah, you definitely get a better bang for your buck in Canada for undergrad (in general, if you get full scholarship in the US then it's another story). Grad school, on the other hand, is more likely to be funded, so you should go whichever place has the best grad school/research in your field. And then it's really a school specific issue rather than a Canada/US thing.</p>

11

<p>I could've gone to McGill and paid $2500 a year (since I'm a Quebec resident)...instead, I'm going to Penn and paying $48k a year. Do I think that Penn is 20x better than McGill? No. It's probably not even 10x or 5x or even 2x as good as McGill, if you can even quantify that. On a dollar-for-dollar basis, it's not worth it to leave Canada for any American school unless you have a very compelling reason (broken home, special program at American uni, allergic to air in your hometown, etc...). But, going to Princeton instead of say, UofT, you will have an experience--you'd surround yourself with the brightest peers possible and the most accomplished professors possible. You'd learn to (sort of) live independently, and you'd probably help your short-term career prospects. So there are benefits. If you can afford to go without putting any strain on your family's budget, you should go, even though you're really paying more for an experience at that point.</p>

12

<p>Got2run, I wasn't talking about costs, I was talking about the the things colleges have to offer, and the way the classes and degrees are set up, etc. The American schools tend to have smaller classes, more extra curricular activities, more interesting sporting events, more on-campus housing, and tighter alumni associations. You apparently think "best college for you" = "cheapest college for you." </p>

<p>The Canadian undergrad experience tends to be much more akin to what in the US is a typical commuter-college experience. But the grad experineces are much more similar between the 2 countries. And the streamlined Canadian programs often give you an opportunity to save time because you can get a degree quicker than you can in the US. I did an M.A. at U of Toronto in 9 months.</p>

13

<p>First of all, you said something in your post that irked me. A lot of internationals think the same way as you - in fact, a lot of people in the U.S. do!</p>

<p>They think an undergraduate degree from an Ivy, like Princeton or Harvard, is a "ticket for life". Well, it's not. My mother is a partner at a large business firm (we'll leave out the name here), and when hiring recruits, the name/prestige of a school DOES NOT impress her. Other people in the business community think similarly. What does impress recruiters is what you /do/ with your degree: internships and job experience you've had, your grades, how intelligent/well-spoken you come accross in your interviews, and in some cases, quality of your portfolio. </p>

<p>A degree from Princeton is just that: a sheet of paper. Sure, you'll get a world class education, but yeah, despit with Ivy grads like to say, you can get that at /a lot/ of American universities. And no, your Princeton degree will not impress the most educated of recruiters, at least not substancially. </p>

<p>If you have plans to go to med school, my advice is to please, please attend a Canadian univeristy like U of T or McGill, get great grades, get great internships, prepare well for your MSAT...</p>

<p>SAVE YOUR MONEY!!</p>

<p>Apply to a prestigous American university for grad school. That's where the name matters, not on your little generic B.A.</p>

14

<p>Still don't think canadians universities can match US.I'have visited UBC , U of toronto and mcgill and i was very unimpressed with their facilities!!!And again if money is not a problem for you us universities are much much better overall!!!
"Save your money" hey give me a break , you sound like paying for a university is the same as wasting money..came on i will spend 40.000 in a us university and it will be worth every penny....i would pay 2 times less to go toa canadian university but at least to me it's not worth it</p>

15

<p>Much much better, really? When it comes to research, facilities really do matter. For undergraduate education it's not that big a factor (compared to say, price). I know profs from US schools such as Harvard who sent their own kids to places like McGill for undergrad, because undergrad in US top schools is simply too pricy for the education they offer.</p>

16

<p>ok!!!the facts are on the internet you don't need to search too hard to realize the difference btw canadian and american universities.when i choosed to go to U of toronto i did it because of the price but after visiting i realised that in the end it would be worth speding 15000 more for schools like northwestern , USC,NYU,BU + for my major(communication:radio/tv/film) there is no match in canada and there are much more jobs related to mu major in USA.
It all depends on your purpose!!</p>

17

<p>phroz3n Wrote: Schools like McGill and U of T have maybe a 50% acceptance rate but the top schools in the US have about 1/10 of that acceptance rate for international students. </p>

<p>Actually you are way off the ballpark. Neither U of T nor Mcgill have an admit rate that high. Here are some figures that I got from the schools themselves for the respective years (below) as you can see admit rates were nowhere near what you said. if you got your figures from places like the princeton review, remember Canuck schools do not supply American sites like the Review with figures. Furthermore, Queen's has an admit rate of about 13%, more like an Ivy.</p>

<p>That aside. It's been discussed on this board several times that Canada's education philosophy is based on giving all qualified students a chance to receive a university degree, finances be damned. That means EC's don't count and admit rate are higher than what would be at US schools. for example if a Canadian school applications rise a university would open up more spaces for those who received the marks needed to to enter the class not reject a whole slew of students. </p>

<p>That said, there are very competitive admit rates in various programs. U of T engineering for example is very tough to get into and depending on the year you could get rejected with a 95% average. Canadians schools also work on filtering out students rather than doing that during the application process, it's done after. Top Canuck schools are notoriously tough graders and many a US student will drop out cause they can't handle the academic rigour.</p>

<p>Will you get a top notch education at a Canadian school? Yes.</p>

<p>Will you have top notch faculty? depends on the school. Yes, worldclass at Toronto and Mcgill.</p>

<p>Will you have the same faculty/student ratio as an Ivy? No, but perhaps at Queen's.</p>

<p>Will your school have the prestige in the US as an Ivy? No, but prestige doesn't guarantee you a job either.</p>

<p>Will your degree have name recognition with US employers? most corporate recruiters know schools like Mcgill, Toronto, Queen's, Waterloo and UBC. Some recruit at these schools, like Microsoft at Waterloo.</p>

<p>Will a canuck school have the amount of money as a top US school? No, but neither do US public universities.</p>

<p>Will I save money at a Canuck school? yes</p>

<p>As for the original poster. the reason to study at an American school for undergrad is if you plan to live there after graduation. A US ivy won't impress Canadian employers. I should know I encountered that myself.</p>

<p>Admit stats: 2003- 2004
University of Toronto: (double cohort pushes up admits for 2003 to 2005, so inflated acceptance rate for these three years for U of T).
42,000 Applied,
10, 097 Accepted (spread out over three campuses)
= 24% admittance rate</p>

<p>McGill University
23,000 students applied
4890, Students accepted, estimated (2001 figures)
= 21% admittance rate, estimated</p>

18

<p>Where the hell are you pulling those admit rate stats from?!?!</p>

19

<p>Considering that McGill has over 20,000 undergrads, it seems rather difficult that they only accept 4890, no? Even if their yield is a ridiculously high 65%, that'd still mean they're only bringing in 3100 students a year. And considering that most of its students come from Quebec, and are only at McGill for 3 years, how would it even approach 20,000 undergrads? I'll tell you: your stats are made-up or way off.</p>

<p>I live in Quebec. Lots of people I know applied to Queens, McGill, UofT, etc...I don't know ANYONE who was rejected, and most people carried low to mid B averages.</p>

20

<p>we were 5 applying to canadian universities and all of us were accepted ..with no SAT or ACT just average grades and average TOEFL score.Once again cdn universities are very good don't get me wrong..is it worth it?like i've said it all depends !!for exemple if you want to study computer science ,waterloo is a fantastic university and cheap compared to ohers.</p>