"Cell Phone New Apron String For Freshmen"

<p>Frazzled1 and MotherofTwo, I could not agree with you more. </p>

<p>07Dad, I must admit, I do not agree with all that you have written, though I believe each family should do what they feel comfortable doing. I also think you make MANY assumptions that just are not the case with those who are in frequent contact with their children. </p>

<p>You posed:

[quote]
Wouldn't you agree that if your S is "busy" doing his job (college), as you want him to be, he would naturally call fairly infrequently?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have two kids in college who are past the point that your son is and so I think I can comment on this with some experience. One is a senior, one is a junior. Both stay in touch with us pretty frequently, every few days at least. They are MORE than busy doing their job at college.....if you only knew my kids, they take on WAY WAY WAY more than is required at college and have insane schedules all day, all night, all weekend. They do MUCH more than go to school. They take on a lot of extra commitments and I frankly don't know how they do it all and both are attending demanding highly selective colleges and programs. One is in a professional degree program which involves nine required courses per semester, and she has chosen to audit (and do the homework for) a tenth one. She also is musically directiing a professional show (for pay) that rehearses five times per week. she is also the musical director for an a capella group that rehearses twice per week plus she writes the arrangements on her own time. She also is in a Scholars program with required bi weekly sessions. She also takes on paid work teaching. She also is usually cast in a show that rehearses five times per week. She has the preparation and homework for all ten classes as well. She also must travel to private lessons required of her program each week. She is in school related things all day and all night and over the weekends. She gets excellent grades. She clearly is doing her "job" at school. She makes frequent very brief calls while on the run from one activity to another, to let us know her news and happenings, to share. For instance, I got a call yesterday....the usual two min. type as she was running to a subway but to tell me she attended an audition outside of school and was cast on the spot. She wanted to tell us. I then asked her about some other things I knew she was doing this week and she quickly shared about them. I don't do things for her or solve her problems. I have no clue her homework and that sort of thing. I do take a big interest in what she is doing. She called earlier in the week after the first day of classes to say, "I love this school so much; I had the most amazing first day; I am having some incredible opportunities, and I want to thank you so much for paying for this." I surely love getting these calls! </p>

<p>My other D....is clearly doing her "job" at school and then some. She not only gets high grades at a very challenging university, she has chosen to apply for and was accepted to do an Honors Thesis, which is not required. She applied to become a TA for a course even though she is an undergraduate and was selected to do that (she called to tell me that news last week as she was walking to something) which means an additional course to attend and to prepare for the two sections she will lead, plus additional TA meetings each week. She is on a Varsity sport team which requires seven practices per week in the off season, and two mornings mid week in season out of state for practice (leaves at 6:30 AM) and requires her to be away every single weekend for competitions. She used to also be on a club sport team but this year says she can't fit it in or she would. She also is a tour guide weekly at her college. She also applied to and was selected to be an advisor to a freshman group (more time commitments, plus the three days of training). She also volunteers at a local elem school. She also is applying to graduate schools right now and has to study for the GREs, do applications/essays, and prepare a portolio which is a lot of work. She is doing her job. Her calls home do NOT preclude her from doing what she should be doing.</p>

<p>I venture to say that both my kids (who are not unique, but I am merely talking of personal experience) do MORE than the job of being just a student which is a big job in itself. If anything, I feel they take on too much (though I support them as they want to do this stuff and are driven). However, they care (and so do I) to stay in touch regularly. We rarely call them as they are so busy and our system is that it is easier for them to pick the times to call us. The calls are usually sharing what is going on in their lives. Once in a while, there may be something they want to either vent or run by us for advice as all humans do and they know that we care and are there to listen. For instance, my very independent child was working abroad all summer in her field. However, she was the victim of fraud with money that she wired to someone for housing. She had to go to the police in a foreign country and talked to us about advice. Sometimes college kids run things by their peers and there are some things they may wish to run by a parent. Sometimes, though not very often, there is a vent and they just want to tell someone the vent, which doesn't mean we step in to take any actions. I recall about ten days ago, my younger one had a big gig at a well known venue in NYC with the a capella group she is in but also musically directs. She called me from a taxi on the way to their concert and was a bit frazzled because she realizled that this thing she uses in their performances, called a melodica, was left the night before when she was at a restaurant in NYC and now she didn't have it though they could do the concert and use a pitch pipe they had, but she felt she was letting them down. She told me she had called the restaurant to see if it was found and it wasn't. But she felt she wanted to just vent to someone what she had done and she felt overly bad about it. I later found out that she decided to call the restaurant one more time from the cab to talk to someone else there and indeed they found it and she asked the cab to take her to the restaurant, wait, and take her to her show which she made miraculously on time, LOL. I didn't solve her problem. But she wanted to tell someone and she chose to tell me. My husband would tell you that he thinks it is nice that the kids choose to share this stuff with us. But they are very very independent. We have never called their schools about anything. We do not do stuff for them (other than pay for stuff we agreed to pay for) and are here as a support system. Isn't that what parents are for? </p>

<p>There is a continum with parenting and while some "helicoptering" is over the top where the parents are overly involved in doing things for their kids and intervening once in college like they did when they were little, there are parents who are in frequent touch with their college aged kids because both the kids and parents want to be, just to share, support, etc. And then there are parents who take no interest in their kids and say, you're on your own. Each of us feels comfortable with the level of parenting we have chosen. I have chosen that middle level. We do stay in frequent contact. But my kids are very independent, make their own choices of colleges, classes, jobs, summer endeavors, futures, majors, etc. They are more than doing their "jobs." We are not doing things for them, nor do we tell them what to do anymore (I'd probably say....do less! LOL). They make their own choices but we are here for advice, support, or to just take an interest. I don't see why that is a negative thing. I think it is a positive thing! For me, it is.</p>

<p>Doubleplay, at my kids' schools (Brown and NYU/Tisch), the freshman orientation was the week before classes and did not involve parents at all. We just moved our kids in and left as that was how it was set up. I have been to parent sessions at the Open Houses for accepted students (which are optional to attend) in April of their senior years in high school....because we HAD to take them to the events in terms of travel. I also have been to Parent Weekends for Freshman at their schools. But none of this parent stuff was part of orientation or before school began. That was for JUST the students at my kids' colleges. The events for admitted students as seniors or the Parent Weekends in college are elective things to attend.</p>

<p>I can't help but post because I am laughing because right after I posted that post about my kids calling, my older D just called! Again, it was about a four minute call. She was on her way to meet with a younger student at the request of the head of the department to advise him on how to get an internship since she successfully had done that on her own this past summer, and I forgot when I was posting about her full life, that she ALSO is the student leader of her departmental major. She was calling because when we moved her into her off campus house, owned by the university, a week ago, we found it to be a very large room for one person, way larger than we ever imagined and the rug she owned was very inadequate. The floor was in deplorable shape with carpetting from about six remnants pieced together that were all in disgusting condition. When we moved her in, there was a lot of discarded furniture in the house and we found a nice carpet among everything and laid it for her and moved everything around and helped her unpack all that we brought. After we left, it turned out that the carpet belonged to one of the nine girls in the house who had lived there over the summer but had just moved it out of her room temporarily which we did not realize. So, my D had to get people in to move everything out of her room to give the girl the carpet. Then, she had to rip up the disgusting carpets underneathe and go out and buy a new carpet today. She negotiated with her university to pay for most of it. She called to tell us of the purchase and how she will now have to move into her room all over again today, and also that she laid out the money and the school will likely just credit our tuition bill account and so we need to reimburse our kid. We get calls of this nature. I hardly think such things are helicoptering. She took care of finding out if the school would pay (I suggested asking since I knew they paid for others in her house who painted their rooms) and she took care of buying the carpet and getting help with moving all the furniture all over again that her dad had just done a week ago. :D</p>

<p>I think perhaps there is a lot of common ground here. If both you and your child are comfortable with the level of communication, and the child is learning to become independent and solve their own problems (with advice when asked for), it's healthy. When the parent is intervening in minor problems, when the parent is calling multiple times per day, when the child becomes is incapable of making even minor decisions on his/her own... helicopter time.</p>

<p>There are certainly examples of the opposite extreme as well. At the high school where I work, we have kids who come to school with no lunch and no lunch money. Parents are offered a multiple chances to fill out forms to qualify for free/reduced lunch, they don't fill them out. Parents are called to come talk to assist principal about child's behaviour/academic issues, they claim they don't have time and it's the school's problem. Parents leave teenagers home alone for the weekend and then act surprised when a party breaks out. I sat next to a mother at a ball game who complained non-stop about how incompetent her child's middle school was. Since my child attended the same school and was having a great experience, I asked who her child's teachers were. She replied, "Oh, I don't keep track of that. That's my child's job." She didn't even know who her kids teachers were and its the SCHOOL that's incompetent? I once spoke to a dad who didn't know which GRADE his kid was in, and another who didn't know which SCHOOL his kid attended. </p>

<p>There are extremes on both ends of parenting.</p>

<p>Lafalum....so true...that's what I think too....a broad continuim of parenting. I have also met people who cannot name their childrens' teachers. </p>

<p>I was once a teacher myself. I recall having a first grader who was a discipline problem. While he was disciplined in school and I had set up various "steps" of consequences, a more severe consequence was a "note home to parents, " which most kids surely did NOT want to have happen. But when lighter consequences were not working, that step was enacted. So, I sent a note home to his mom. I recall that the mother wrote a letter back (which I saved for all posterity and it went into the child's file per the principal's wishes) where she scribbled angrily about how she doesn't run to me when she has a problem with her child and I should not run to her if I have one! :eek: We no longer could count on working with her!</p>

<p>LOL, when I taught First Grade, the most effective discipline technique ever (when all else failed) was to halt the class and begin dramatically to dial the student's mother by cell. Usually the kid straightened up immediately, but if not, the call went through and the kid was sent off to the corner of a room to talk to Mom. With tears rolling down his eyes, he'd return apologetic to me. The idea that there was some direct link between these two sources of authority was an epiphany for some manipulative kids. The moms appreciated being able to intervene at a useful moment, and stayed on the phone to thank me profusely for calling them rather than sending home a weary note at day's end. I'd always send home a note that said, "After we spoke, your child
settled down and did a fine day's work." BTW, this was in a hardscrabble, poverty, URM rural elementary school. I also knew that if we could use some instant communication to SOLVE a problem, I might save a kid a beating later on, which is often the result of sending home a bad-note. What else is the mom supposed to do at that point, long after the situation? (Or so they thought, with limited ideas about childrearing tools). She has to assert that she agrees with the teacher, but it comes out all distorted as a beating or spanking, depending on the family. If a cellphone call saved the kid a beating, well, more power to the cell. </p>

<p>The hardest part was keeping an updated list of parents' cellphones, since they run out of money and reorder new ones when they recover some ground financially. It's not that I depended on the moms to discipline where I should. It was just one of a dozen tools in my bag-of-tricks to keep kids in line so no one kid wrecked the day for 25 others. </p>

<p>But since we're talking about grown young adults, not the "babies" in First Grade, I'm not sure how the analogy holds up.</p>

<p>Kudos to you ingenious grade school teachers.</p>

<p>Woody Allen not knowing Dylan's (or Satchell's who is now Seamus) teachers' names was a telling point in his failed custody bid in his battle with Mia Farrow.</p>

<p>Paying3tuitions....this was also in our rural elementary school where my children (though not yet born at the time) eventually attended. The cell idea sounds GREAT but not only didn't I own a cell back then, nor did a lot of people, cells do not work in a lot of my town, including where the schools are located, and so that idea would be out. I've called parents and also sent notes. I think with that mom it would not have mattered because she saw no reason for me to report her child's behavior to her, whereas I saw us as working as a team and that by informing her, it was a punishment in itself to the kid who didn't want mommy to know he was misbehaving but also that we could reinforce one another which is the idea with school K-12. Needless to say, he continued to be a problem but we had to use other consequences besides calling mom! I also sent daily positive notes home to each parent as kids contracted with me about something they wanted to improve about themselves and if they did it that day, I let their parents know with a "Happy Gram."</p>

<p>OK, back to our college aged kids....LOL</p>

<p>My other D called from college tonight with more news of some happenings of her weekend, full of enthusiasm. I happen to love these calls. So does my husband who also listens in on another line. No advice or help was involved....just sharing their news. I hardly think that kids who choose to do this or parents who are into this are helicoptering and that their kids are not busy with their "jobs" at school. Mine are so busy that fitting in the calls is not easy and are often done enroute to another thing.</p>