Chain of Command

<p>A story that about saluting that struck us funny. Our son was an NROTC mid on the Marine option at a mid-Atlantic university. One day early this year, he and his 1/C midshipmen candidates were driven from their home campus to the huge Navy facilities in or around Norfolk for a final round of pre-commissioning medical tests. Uniform of the Day was Summer Whites (short sleeves), with midshipmen insignia not usually seen out in the Fleet. And my son was even more anomalous, with the USMC EGA on the Navy white cover and on his collar lapel - the correct and required uniform for his status, but wholly unknown anywhere outside an NROTC unit on campus. </p>

<p>So they hit Norfolk and immediately go into evasive action mode: Scout around corners for uniform and braid density, cross streets to avoid possible salutes to officers. Eyes alert to sort chiefs from warrants from O-levels. Salute at last resort when necessary and appropriate. </p>

<p>So he gets surprised by a very junior Sailor rounding a corner, who spots the strange uniform and badge combo immediately goes into indecision mode: right arm twitches up, then drops, then twitches up, then drops, then - as they pass, does a half way up slider off to the right, and a muttered "Good day, Sir". </p>

<p>My son said he cracked up, stopped the young sailor, explained his rank and uniform, and assured him that it was wholly unnescessary to salute anyone of the rank of Midshipman - and that he would be most unlikely to see such a hashed together uniform ever again (a Marine in Navy whites? Huh?). </p>

<p>Don't know if this sheds any light on the "Mids are officers-no they are not" controversy here. But it does seem that Midshipmen are in a deliberately indeterminant intermediate status between enlisted and and commissioned officers, and not often seen in the fleet.</p>

<p>and then there are the "left handed salutes." </p>

<p>not that I want to stir up any trouble mind you!!! :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Whether or not we 'rate' a salute or not is irrelevant.</p>

<p>The fact of the mater is that we are in no discernible position of authority to command an enlisted individual one way or the other.</p>

<p>The fact that people have their knickers in a knot over us not getting saluted leads me to wonder whether or not they really understand the nature of the beast; respect.</p>

<p>When we do not get saluted, there is no earthly reason to become uppity about it. Really, what have we done to earn their respect? Pulled an all-nighter that one time to finish a paper? Run an 'outer' in record time? Honestly.</p>

<p>Conversely, should we be afforded a salute. The correct action is merely return their respect, action for action. Wish them a good day and carry on. Everyone wins. To not return the salute and furthermore correct them reeks of disrespect and arrogance.</p>

<p>Until then, wait for that glorious day in May of whatever year. At that point you can then begin to earn the respect of those below you and furthermore earn the privilege, not right, of being saluted.</p>

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<p>Perhaps you don't understand 'the nature of the beast.' It is a military tradition, courtesy, and regulation, having nothing to do with respect. If that were so, would you only salute those seniors which you knew and respected. As an Ensign in Norfolk, I would love to follow you around for a day observing this philosophy in action.</p>

<p>Besides, no one has their knickers in a knot. Just a conversation attempting to gain understanding. Obviously, from the lack of concrete information, it is, wrongfully so, I think, an area which the Academy feels that need not be clarified.</p>

<p>My experiences when on my fleet cruise following my plebe year showed that the enlisted sailors/Marines do look up to midshipmen as long as they are given a reason to. We were treated as Junior Officers. We stood quarterdeck watch with a sidearm, and had a seaman or petty officer with us. The unfortunate truth is in come cases Naval Academy grads have a bad reputation when going to the fleet as an officer. This is in some way to the behavior of mids on summer cruise. The view that my enlisted Marines have of what an officer candidate should be is based on how they view their officers. They know that I am an academy graduate, and commented to me yesterday on how they met some mids from the academy in subway. They told me they thought their cammies looked bad, sleeves not rolled correctly, wrinkled cammies. One had cammies with flip flops on because of a sprained ankle. Frankly, they were not impressed at all, saying that JROTC have more pride in their uniforms than what they saw. They knew they were from the academy because they got off the big Naval Academy buses</p>

<p>"Until then, wait for that glorious day in May of whatever year. At that point you can then begin to earn the respect of those below you and furthermore earn the privilege, not right, of being saluted."</p>

<p>I hate to break the news, but your chance to earn the respect of those who will be under you has already begun. They will salute you and call you sir or ma'am because it is what they are supposed to do when you are an officer. Being an academy grad you are associated with what they know of the academy, if its from thier former officers or from mids they have seen. This is something mids need to know before going to the fleet in the summers. They are not there just to have fun. They represent the academy, the future officer corps and all the graduates of the academy who are officers.</p>

<p>My particular viewpoint on the matter coincides with Navy07. Make USNA, both the graduates and institution, look good. Take pride in yourself, your institution, and your work ethic. During my fleet cruise we did just that and earned the respect of the sailors we worked with. Despite being on an 'enlisted cruise' they still called us sir (we were on a sub...otherwise ma'am would have been in there too) and saluted us pierside. They respected us. To do any otherwise and walk around demanding that people salute you reflects poorly upon both USNA and yourself.</p>

<p>Yes, ultimately the matter of a salute is one of rank. I still saluted the O5 that came to class in khakis every once in awhile missing a belt or ribbons. About the only place I would have willingly followed him without an order was through the lunch line.</p>

<p>Viewing the salute merely as regulation, however, I think of as superficial. Yes, sailors salute the rank. The rank, however, is indicative of the trust of the American people. In my opinion, whether they recognize it or not, they respect the fact that the American people place that level of trust in an individual and render a salute accordingly.</p>

<p>The real culprit in this matter is USNA and Navy. The ambiguity with which midshipmen seem to exist in the confines of the rank structure undoubtedly needs alteration. Until then, however, we can all just thrive in limbo-land.</p>

<p>LOL I had to get into this one.
As a retired SCPO it would have taken an exceptional Mid to rate a salute.
I have seen a few and they got it not because of the skinny gold strap but by their actions.</p>