Chance a College Graduate: Do I Have a Chance?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
1

<p>I would really appreciate some honest advice on this issue. I am about to start my senior year at a top-20 university in the United States. I am in the honors program and have maintained a 3.90 GPA for my undergraduate career. However, through my studies, as well as life experiences, I have determined the best way to achieve my career goals and attain self-fulfillment is to graduate from USNA (or USMA).</p>

<p>I am seeking relevant input/advice on my situation. From an academic standpoint, I believe I have demonstrated my aptitude sufficiently for either institution, assuming they weigh my college record similarly to how they view a traditional applicant's high school record. I have a lot of extracurriculars, but very little which demonstrate a commitment to the military (this is a concern for me). How do I go about establishing such an activity? ROTC is out of the question, I assume... what can I do to strengthen my profile?</p>

<p>Also, will these institutions be leery of my situation, which could be perceived as indecisiveness? I would hope not, but I am inexperienced with service academy admissions committees. </p>

<p>Please ask me anything you may need to know to give more accurate advice. I am passionate about serving our country, especially in times where leadership and conviction are in need. Thanks in advance for any and all help!</p>

2

<p>I can’t address how the NA would view a college graduate but would like to point out that the goal of the all of the academies is to produce officers. That is the same goal as OCS and has to be your main goal too.</p>

<p>I would contact a Navy recruiting office and speak to someone about signing up for OCS upon graduation. They may even pay for your last year.</p>

3

<p>i think ocs is your best bet through the bdcp program. why do four more years??</p>

4

<p>I understand that service academies are in the business of producing officers. However, they also provide excellent educational opportunities. One of my goals is to become an officer, but that is not my only goal. I hope to enhance my formal education too, in the hopes that I will improve my future employment opportunities (if I choose to reenter civilian life). I hope to become involved in international law on behalf of the United States; what’s a better way to begin this path than starting out at a service academy?</p>

<p>I am not fazed about starting over at USNA. I’ll be 26 at graduation, 31 after the service requirement is over. I would MUCH rather be a little older than average than regret my life’s path. This is something I’ve thought about for some time, but it’s now do-or-die time.</p>

<p>Any more thoughts or advice? I appreciate every so far.</p>

5

<p>It seems you may be a “victim” of youthful indecision. But not now, rather when you were matriculating 4 years past. </p>

<p>There is magic to a USNA degree, but not necessarily to a lesser degree than you seem on the path toward earning. Learn from this, dream that your child might one day do what you did not in terms of going to an SA, and move confidently with conviction toward the same career path a USNA or other SA degree and commission would have. It seems there’s no real educational merit worth doing that which you might be contemplating. Get focused and get on. </p>

<p>And congrats, best of luck, and thank you for your desire to serve our great nation. Work toward restoring it to that very height.</p>

6

<p>jj: Yes, you have a chance. As with all potential candidates, you will need to not only know, but convey, why you want to go to USNA. If law is your desired outcome, know that far and few between come out of USNA and head into a grad school for law/JAG. If your only desire is to attend USNA because of a prestigious education, then it likely isn’t the place for you. If your desire is to become a Naval Officer, by any means, then you’ll have a much better shot. You <em>will</em> be up against a large number of applicants that do have that aim. If you are not admitted, are you willing to become a Naval Officer via NROTC or OCS? If not, why not? As a BGO, those are questions I would most certainly ask you.
Also, while you’re attaining a 3.9 at present in college, what is the coursework and what is the college? You say it’s top-20; in what, and by who’s standards? What are the ECA’s? Are you physically fit? Do you play a sport (or 2 or 3)? Do you have and demonstrate any leadership amongst your peers? What are you doing for the community where you attend college? How much are you balancing/juggling successfully? Those are all questions a good BGO will either ask or look to see answered, and if the BGO misses them, the selection board most certainly will look at.
For instance, I already see a bit of vascillation. At first you comment “if I choose to reenter civilian life” and in the very next paragraph you’re discussing the duration of the service requirement. So, if I were your BGO, I’d be testing the waters to see just what your level of commitment is. Are you only wanting in to “5 and dive”? You understand the length of commitment, but are you focused on that, or becoming an Officer? Are you looking for grad school through USNA? (that carries more time…)
The other thing I’d be reading between the lines on is “why here, and why now”? Give me a compelling reason to choose you over anyone else. Impressive that you are willing to begin your entire college career over again. What are you working for a degree in now, and what would be your academic path at USNA? If you haven’t taken, for instance, a math class since your frosh year at civilian U, you may be in for a bit of a shock… (I know our daughter, recently graduated from a civilian university in Linguistics, didn’t have a math class for the past 3 years. She had a bit of brush up to do before she went to conquer the GRE…, while her Mid-brother is entrenched in math/science on a daily basis at USNA).
Yes, you have a chance. My question is why do you want that chance? Convince me.</p>

7

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<p>I would question the judgement of any MOC who would nominate you. Why should the American taxpayer fund $400,000 to qualify you as a Navy officer, when you are already qualified? </p>

<p>How are the needs of the United States Navy better served by sending you to (back) college?</p>

<p>PS - There are ways to continue your education while serving on active duty.</p>

8

<p>Okay, here is your chance to impress a BGO. [You can PM me if you want o ryou can throw it out there; your choice.]</p>

<p>Assuming we’ve gone through all the other questions, blah, blah, blah. THEN,
You have determined that the best way to achieve your “career goals and attain self-fulfillment” is to graduate from USNA. Tell me: Why is that?</p>

<p>Also, if you are “passionate” about serving the country, what have you done to apply [be considered] by OCS? If a NA appointment is not forthcoming, what ar eyour plans?</p>

9

<p>And to Luigi’s point, explain why your choice of current college has failed to equip you sufficiently to pursue OCS? When did you determine such. And why should that $400K investment be allocated for your benefit. What differnce will it make in your life? For the Navy? </p>

<p>I trust you get Bill’s good point. Yours would not be a simple case to make. And if you can to Bill’s liking? Then you should seriously consider law school and the JAG Corp …</p>

10

<p>Well, while I’m engaged with this . . . if a candidate phrased it to me in exactly that manner, I would ask:</p>

<p>you speak of what the NA would do for YOUR career goals and YOUR self-fulfillment, tell me: What does the Navy get out of the bargain? What about the country’s needs? Put anothe way, what do you bring to the table that another candidate does not? [The truth be told, this is a pretty standard question for me anywya; I always like to hear why I should recommend THIS particular candidate–in their own words–over another.]</p>

11

<h2>Thank you all for your challenging questions. It’s really helping me test my motivations for attending a service academy. Below are my responses to each of you.</h2>

<p>jmwrites:</p>

<p>If I am not able to gain admission into a service academy, my alternative plan is to attend law school and then complete OCS. I am willing and eager to become an officer, but I also wish to improve my formal education with the expectation that I will be better prepared for future leadership. </p>

<p>My major is interdisciplinary – it focuses on how the field of medicine fits into American society. My school is ranked in the top 20 by USNWR. I work part-time with an organization at my university’s medical center, have an internship which focuses on improving public policy in my state, and I have volunteered a lot with different community organizations. I take an average of 17 credit hours per semester. </p>

<p>I am not planning to “5 and dive;” I only mention that because it is a relevant issue with regards to service academies, just as my age and previous education. I want to serve the United States, but I want to make sure I maximize my potential in order to best contribute to this country.</p>

<p>Why here, why now? – I am running out of time. When I originally applied to colleges, I did not give service academies a chance. I wanted the “college experience,” and now that I’ve done so for three years, I realize that I missed an opportunity to work towards something meaningful for this nation. I have always done well in math and science classes, even at the honors level in college, so that will not be an issue for me.</p>

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<p>Luigi59:</p>

<p>I believe the investment is worthwhile because my intention is to improve myself for service of the United States. I am not looking to merely “survive and advance” from an academic perspective; I have ambitions of being a key player in our country’s military administration. While $400,000 is a large investment, I believe that my past accomplishments and rationale for entering a service academy at this point in my life (the cutoff age is 23, and while I understand the qualms many of you have about me – why not eliminate those with previous education from consideration if it is a huge issue?) will best prepare me for naval or military service. </p>

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<p>Bill0510:</p>

<p>My career goal is to have a legal or foreign relations position in the United States Military or US Navy. This will allow me to focus on maintaining the status of our country in a rapidly changing world. I have looked into OCS, but I find attending a service academy preferable for the reasons I have previously stated. If an appointment is not forthcoming, I will pursue other means to my goals, such as OCS or law school and military/naval internships. </p>

<p>I am different from other candidates because I have already demonstrated my academic aptitude at an elite university, and, in addition to being a naval or military officer, I have a carefully defined career goal. I have taken on responsibility in meaningful capacities while working for a medical center. Most of all, through these last four years, I have realized the squandered opportunity I had to pursue the most meaningful career available to me, and I am passionate about not coming up short again. </p>

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<p>Whistle Pig: </p>

<p>I have already discussed why the $400,000 investment should be allocated for my benefit (see my response to Luigi59). As previously mentioned, my career goal is not ONLY to be a naval/military officer, but to also work in the administrative side of the military. I believe that a service academy will best prepare me for this objective. Thank you for suggesting an alternative should I not be able to attain admission (law school + Jag Corps).</p>

12

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<p>Then you do not belong at a service academy. </p>

<p>The US Naval Academy exists to provide the US Navy with unrestricted line officers, not lawyers or staff corps specialists.</p>

<p>OCS is your goal, good luck.</p>

13

<p>Luigi59, I appreciate the clarification. Just one more question: would a service academy education not be beneficial for my situation in any way? I see that OCS is more in line with my career goals, but would a service academy make me more appealing for such jobs, everything else being equal?</p>

14

<p>Also, I should clarify: working in a legal or foreign relations position in the United States Military or US Navy is my final objective. I also want to serve as an officer, both to serve the United States and, to a lesser degree, prepare myself for my future goals.</p>

15

<p>YOur first sentence says it all.
You need to graudate and apply to JAG Corps. You might be able to coordinate OCS before law school, be commissioned, go straight to law school, be paid the whole time, then graduate law school and go to JAG.</p>

<p>NA is not conducive to a goal of law school and/or JAG. In fact, going NA may make more difficult for you to go JAG, considering the age restrictions, requirements of line officer service first, etc.</p>

16

<p>Couple of quick thoughts …</p>

<ol>
<li><p>While your desire to be a military administrator is fine, laudatory, you need to know that’s usually deemed a “restricted” billet. USNA and the other SAs are first and foremost intended to prepare line officers.</p></li>
<li><p>Bill’s point of your #1 point is on the $$, imo. To answer that way at this point in time should lead you anywhere BUT an SA. Remember, you ain’t 18 anymore. At some point, especially when you’re considering making a case for USNA giving you a 2nd bachelors degree at a mere cost of $400K, give or take, while they could commission you much more cost-effectively, well … I trust you’re getting my point. Bill’s is excellent counsel, it would seem, in light of your career interests.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Frankly, I perceive that any/all of us who love USNA and all it represents, like you, can fully understand your heart’s desire. I wish my name might have USNA, Class of '06 after it. But that’s for my reincarnation. You’ve got a great chance to start running toward your love. But make it service to your nation, now. Not USNA. If you’re worthy and diligent, all your stated objectives can come true, imo,but don’t try to shoehorn in 4 more at USNA at this point in your life. My opinion and worth every penny you’re paying, pal.
;)</p>

17

<p>jjay1, sit back and reflect for a moment what you are paying for this advice. You are getting exactly what you paid for. I doubt seriously if any of these posters have ever been in the Navy enough to see how past line officers, especially USNA grads, who go on to become restricted line, contribute immensely to the mission of the Navy. From medicine to law, they bring experience to bear which direct procurements do not which is why transition programs exist.</p>

<p>Keeping in mind that you must have viable back-up plans, whether it is getting into USNA or getting JAG Corps after your first few years of service, go for it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Good luck. Your BGO interview will be less than 1% of your admissions package. Also, as many may be impressed as may be turned off. Twelve hundred candidates are admitted each year. Twelve hundred reasons for being there. Yours is as noble, or even more noble, than many.</p>

18

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<p>The USNA Catalog, Section 6, speaks of many “Careers After Graduation.” It informs us about Surface Warfare, Aviation, Submarines, and Marine Corps.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.usna.edu/Catalog/docs/6_111-120.pdf[/url]”>http://www.usna.edu/Catalog/docs/6_111-120.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>It also goes on to say this about Restricted Line and Staff Corps Specialties (Page 117):</p>

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</p>

<p>For the USNA Class of 2009, 1,025 grads were commissioned as unrestricted line officers.</p>

<p>14 were restricted line officers. (and 15 went directly to medical corps)</p>

<p>1,054 graduates. 14 restricted billets. I wonder how many of those 14 were chosen and how many went to those who could not physically qualify?</p>

<p>Seems pretty clear that the mission of the USNA is to produce unrestricted line officers, and use the restricted billets to commission those who cannot physically qualify.</p>

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<p>Advice from “SONG72” included. :rolleyes:</p>

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</p>

<p>Would a service academy education serve YOU better? Of course, a USNA education is one of the finest in the world!</p>

<p>Would it serve the country better? Doubtful.</p>

19

<p>Luigi, if you read my post in its entirety, you will note that I mentioned serving as a line officer, invaluable experience in the background of a maritime law or international law specialist. It was the Navy LEP to which I was referring, a program where experienced active duty line officers are allowed to attend law school. Yes, they are better prepared to serve the needs of the Navy. It is why the program exists.</p>

20

<p>j: you ask whether the NA would be leery of your situation? The short answer is: Yes. It is one thing to have applied in high school, to be rejected, to apply again as a College Freshman, be rejected and apply AGAIN, with improvement, and then be accepted. Your situation is very different.</p>

<p>Should you apply? Yes. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Realize, however, that the BGOs are specifically directed to ask whether your intentions are to obtain a professional degree; specfically, medicine and law. The NA discourages applicants who are seeking a professional degree. Can it happen with medicine? Absolutely. About 10 - 15 each year. [Up to about 25 are authorized.] Does it happen with law? Probably, but no official authorization exists.</p>

<p>The LEP program is restricted to officers who have 2 - 6 years of service. You would not be permitted to go LEP (entry to law school) until you have finished your NA commitment: 5 years. Thus, you would have a one-year window of opportunity in which to be admitted to a law school. Are there waivers? Maybe, but the restriction may be statutory.</p>

<p>Your package will receive extra scrutiny because of the circumstances. Unless you can identify compelling reasons to appoint an “about to graduate from college” applicant over an “about to graduate from high school” applicant, there is no particular reason for you to be selected. [This is pure conjecture but I would bet that a significant percentage of older than 20-year old appointees are prior enlisted.]</p>

<p>Do some NA graduates go on to transfer to JAG? Yes. Do some serve honorably? Yes. Can you? Yes. That doesn’t mean it is likely to happen.
You need a bang-up narrative because, otherwise, there are other routes open for you to “serve your country.”</p>