Chance a HS Junior for Notre Dame and a few others?

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Demographics: white middle class male, Catholic, US citizen, large public high school in Indianapolis, Indiana

Intended major: History (then law school)

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0
  • Weighted HS GPA: 4.429
  • Class Rank: 3/774
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1490 SAT, 1410 PSAT

Coursework
At the end of high school, I will have been in 10 Honors classes and 9 AP classes (1 soph year, 4 junior year, 4 senior year). AP classes are as follows: AP World History, APUSH, AP Lang, AP Chemistry, AP Human Geography, AP Macroeconomics, AP Lit, AP Physics 1, AP Calculus AB.
I got a 5 on AP World History sophomore year, but haven’t gotten any other exam scores back yet.

**Awards: Named Top History Student at my school sophomore year, Academic All State for track and field junior year (I will have more awards senior year)

**Extracurriculars: Varsity cross country and track (1 varsity letter in both), Captain of varsity academic team at my school, Student Council, NHS, paid research position on a state senate campaign, sumer law internship with my state senator, Notre Dame Summer Scholars (2020 and 2021), employment as a Little League Baseball Umpire, President of school History Club, volunteer in the children’s program at my Church, tutor to elementary school kids in my community

**Essays/LOR: I’m not sure how strong these will be, I have good relationships with my history and English teachers (one is my XC coach, another is the History Club sponsor), my cousin also got her PhD from Notre Dame so she could write a letter for me if that is allowed as part of my application. I also work closely with my state senator so he could write something for me.

**Cost Constraints / Budget: none
Schools
Notre Dame (EA)
Georgetown (EA)
UChicago (EA)
Butler University (RD, safety)
Harvard (RD)
Marian University (RD, safety)
Holy Cross College (safety)
Dartmouth (RD)
Cornell (RD)
Princeton (RD)
Case Western Reserve (RD)
Yale (RD)

Could anyone possibly chance me for my list, but especially Notre Dame? That has always been my dream and is likely where I will go if accepted, however I would be happy to attend anywhere on this list!

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You might want to look at the Common Data Set for Notre Dame and the schools you are interested in. Section C7 tells you how each school weighs both academic and non-academic admissions factors; Section C9 gives you the SAT and ACT ranges of admitted students; Section C10 tells you how admitted students ranked in their respective high schools; and Section C11 gives you the GPA ranges of admitted students. (NOTE: While all universities and colleges are required to maintain this information, some schools do not have a published common data set.) Reviewing this information can give you some idea of how you might fit in, statistically, in recent admitted classes at Notre Dame and the other schools that you are interested in.

You should sit down on multiple occasions with your high school’s guidance counselor and discuss admissions strategies. Further, if your high school uses Naviance or similar software, look over where you fall on those plots of GPA vs. ACT/SAT compared with those of other students from your school who have applied to Notre Dame and the other schools you are interested in; and discuss those results with your guidance counselor.

Your list seems a bit top-heavy. Certainly, all of the Ivy schools that you list, plus Georgetown and Chicago, are going to be reaches. I suggest that your final list include no more than 2-3 reaches; try to have more “match” schools where your statistics fall within the median 50% of admitted students based on the Common Data Sets. IU would likely be a safety school for you.

Also, the guidance counselors at my kids’ school used to say, “Don’t have a dream school; have several dream schools.” Admissions officers don’t care whether the school they work for is your “dream school”; and consequently you need to have some mental flexibility in considering where you might attend. Approach college admissions as a business, because I can assure you that admissions officers are approaching as a business on their end.

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So if you got into Yale or Princeton, you’d still go to Notre Dame?

You say budget doesn’t matter - but are you sure? I mean, why spend $80K a year if you can spend $25K at Alabama, Florida State, or Arizona?

Just curious - why isn’t BC or Villanova on your list…or Santa Clara - perhaps they are “targets”…you don’t have enough targets - I just see CWRU as a target - and you’ll likely get in with aid.

You do have safeties - but why so many? Are you chasing aid - hence my first note? Otherwise, while it’s no problem to apply to Marian, Butler and Holy Cross, why all three if you know you’ll get in. I’d say Holy Cross is a target, not safety.

I think you can get into ND - and maybe others. But every smart kid in America is applying to these schools so they are not a gimme for anyone - there’s no way to know. My daughter’s valedictorian applied to 18, got into 2. The other 16 were from the US News top 20. Got into NYU but no money so she’s going to UT Knoxville.

If money is no issue and you like the mid-size, you might add a William & Mary. If bigger ok (you have Cornell), then a UVA and/or UNC as well. You’d likely be in at William & Mary.

You are set up well - so add a Rochester, Miami type school as a target…and I don’t know - why spend $320K if you can spend $80K. Purdue / IU are great and both have Honors…or there’s other great state schools where you can go for cheap.

Good luck.

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I’m applying to Holy Cross College in Indiana (90% acceptance rate), not College of the Holy Cross. Sorry if I confused you a little bit!

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You have a great first cut at a list: big variations in types, sizes, regions, and selectivity. You are a clearly a star in your school, which always helps (though sadly, often not as much as you would hope). fyi, cousins don’t tip for legacy, and at most places only UG tips for legacy.

So as you consider your next cut at your list, consider:

  1. Start with the money: can (and will) your parents pay for college and law school for you with no loans? if so- happy days! apply as broadly as you want & skip to #2. If not, have a serious money talk with your parents. How much money is there? what are their expectations for how much they should do vs how much you should do for yourself? Run the NPCs: how much would Harvard / Case / Georgetown / Marian cost your family? If you chose a school that is less expensive (b/c of merit $$) would they put the balance of any college funds towards graduate school? Will they subsidize you if you want to take a Hill (or other political) internship? (which are almost all unpaid or barely paid, so you need a way to pay for living in DC for the summer). Then revisit your list. Cut any schools that require more than the amount that you can borrow in your own hame (~$5-7K/pa). Figure out if any on your lis offer good merit $- if not look for some that do. Law school is wildly expensive, and intro level jobs in the poitical/legal sphere famously don’t pay well. You need to graduate with as little debt as possible.

  2. Next, refine your reaches, keeping in mind both affordability and fit: why are those specific schools on your list? Learn more about the cultures at HYP -they are not interchangeable. Which one actually fits you as a person and a student best? Dartmouth and Cornell are strongly different student experiences- which one is a better fit for you? Besides it’s famously aggressive (& successful) marketing, what makes you think that UChic is a good fit for you?

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What Collegemom says - or as i’ll assume - you can afford it but do your parents want to?

I think you have reaches and safeties. You need targets.

You are far above a Marian or Holy Cross Indiana…so why do you need so many? What’s the purpose of multiples?

If you tell me to chase merit aid - I get it.

But if it’s to ensure you get in - two safeties are enough.

But you need more in the William and Mary, Wake Forest (i.e. you have CWRU on your list) area.

Many of your schools are catholic - is that a requirement? Obviously the Ivys aren’t…so i’m thinking just size wise to match - a WUSTL, Emory, Rice - still reaches…but a Miami FL, Brandeis (no, it’s not Jewish), Rochester, Northeastern could be targets.

But again - why no public schools - you are studying history and going to law school. If you were my kid, you’d be going to IU/Purdue or a high merit aid school with a strong Honors such as ASU, U of SC, Florida State, UGA, etc. You might also look at W&L Johnson Scholarship.

There’s zero reason for you to spend so much on:

  1. A history major

  2. Law School

That’s why collegemom says you need to chat with your parents.

Maybe they can afford $320K + Law School - but do they want to??

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You may want to consider Case Western EA rather than RD. They like attention :slight_smile:

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Honestly, any school that offers EA, you always do EA. If it’s not binding, get in early - and do any optional essays.

Learn which look at demonstrated interest and get on a webinar or two, send a random question to the admissions adviser, and for all sign up for their email lists. Some will even send you app fee waivers.

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My son is going to ND next year. In the letter he received from his AO after he was accepted, it specifically noted his service and leadership as elements of his application that made him stand out. He chose ND over Cornell, UVA, Michigan, BC, USC and a few others specifically because of the amazing community.

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If it’s alright, may I ask what some of his stats and ECs were? Obviously I know it can be a little useless to compare since everyone is different, but I would like to just get a bit of an idea.

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I will PM you.

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I agree that BC would be a good school for the OP to investigate. It may be a reach also, but if the OP is attracted to Notre Dame, then he should also look into BC.

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Look at the non-academic admissions factors in Section C7 of the Common Data Set.

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