If you’re truly serious about doing the kind of research to be competitive for MD/PhD (particularly for places like Stanford and Harvard), then you’ll want to be at a major research institution (not a small LAC). Otherwise, your research is really limited to summers at away med schools as opposed to having a longitudinal experience over many years right next to your dorm!
1 Like
Does this student want to do a MD/PhD?
I think she should given her interests!
Never mind
3 Likes
yes, MD/PhD is my ultimate goal!! i figured it was a bit too far off to include in this post, but i’ve actually never thought research being limited to summers… i definitely won’t be applying anywhere where this is the case. regardless, i’ll try to consider all of my options.
also, responding to someone else… truthfully, yes. prestige is a big factor. i have my own reasons for this, but i have reason to believe that I’d be happy anywhere regardless of size/city/rural/whatever as long as the education is great, and I have a great environment. coming from a rural area, it’s really difficult to find this, and i’m not willing to compromise it for fit
1 Like
Thank you for clarifying. Yes, ongoing research would be a good thing.
Congratulations on all of your accomplishments so far. You have a bright future ahead of you.
You say that cost is not an issue for college. If you decide on an MD rather than MD/PhD, would cost be an issue? Is your family willing to part with $400k but not $800k? If that is the situation, then you might want to take a closer look at the prestige that can be found in a full ride or similarly large scholarship opportunity.
2 Likes
Have you seen these websites?
These might provide some additional food for thought. Some colleges where acceptance rates are higher and where you might get good to terrific merit aid include:
Case Western
U. of Delaware
Vassar
U. of Rochester
U. of Pittsburgh (which has rolling admissions and is an extremely likely admit if you apply early)
U. of Minnesota
Rhodes
3 Likes
You don’t need to do a premed program. You can major in anything and go to med school, as long as you have the prerequ’s covered, which can happen during college or at a post-bacc program like this Post-Baccalaureate Pre-Medical Certificate Program | Pre-Health Studies | Georgetown University .
Make sure you think about the experience of those 4 undergrad years, and don’t focus only on a career goal that may change or shift, exclusively. You do seem pretty committed but those 4 years are important too.
I wonder if you have considered Barnard.
1 Like
If the goal is MD/PhD, then you really must major in a rigorous scientific discipline (chemistry, biology, biochemistry, etc.). You need to live and breath rigorous science to be credible for the MD/PhD programs. Don’t waste time with small LACs; you need a major research institution in order to conduct the research necessary for being competitive. Research, after all, will be the major part of your MD/PhD application, so you need to be stellar here. Don’t forget, you’re getting a full ride to medical school (tuition+room/board/etc), so you need to be the best of the best…
I have a family member who is currently in an MD/PhD program.
She was involved in ongoing research for 3 out of her 4 years of college (seems she began as a rising sophomore).
You are an unbelievable student with a very bright future ahead of you. Just be aware that for MD/PhD….you don’t do all 4 years of med school at once. You might do 1 year of med school, 2 years of research, back to years 2 and 3 of med school, back to another year of research, and then year 4 of med school. It’s a long haul, as you know. Not that it matters at all- it doesn’t. I just figured I would tell you her experience.
I would add Pitt and U of Rochester. Good luck!!
3 Likes
Couldn’t disagree more. And I say this as the parent of a PhD-bound, two-time ISEF finalist (just like OP) who’s now at a top LAC doing research, publishing, and winning external fellowships.
3 Likes
You’ve done very well, congrats to you. Going to medical school and then MD/PhD is a long hard road. Good news is that most MD/PhD programs are funded, so the cost will be less. But getting into an MD/PhD program is extremely competitive.
Take a look at the MSAR, it will give details on the various requirements for med school admissions. You’ll see that the stats for matriculated ORMs requires a high bar. Generally a GPA > 3.8 and MCAT > 514 will be competitive. Even higher for MD/PhD programs. A growing trend is that many students now take 1-2 gap years before applying, even grads from T20 colleges. This makes your application more competitive. The number of med school applicants has doubled over the past decade.
You can get a solid pre-med education anywhere. But small LACs are the best place because you can stand out and be at the top of your class. Prestige plays only a minor role. Going to a college with grade deflation (MIT, Chicago, Princeton) will weigh negatively on your app.
1 Like
This really depends on the specific schools being compared. Swarthmore, for example, enrolls a greater concentration of brilliant students than quite a few of the schools the OP listed in her original post. The OP may want this, however, along with the access to faculty and research opportunities associated with a purely undergraduate-focused college.
2 Likes
Yes I completely agree. In her case, MD/PhD apps require having a solid history of research, which is not so easy at small LACs. Swarthmore is a great school
Can you enlighten us on the type of “research” possible at a small LAC? Honestly, it never would have occurred to me. These places are not even ranked with the research universities because they are completely apples and oranges… OP, as I had suspected, appears quite interesting in pursuing MD/PhD, so why not put your best foot forward and go to a research university where you have unparalleled opportunities…?
I think that this is likely to depend quite a bit on which small LAC you apply to. If research is important, then OP is going to need to find a few LACs to consider and look at each one closely.
One daughter wanted a small school such as a LAC, and ended up at a small university in Canada (they do not use the term “liberal arts college” in Canada, but have a small number of similar schools). She got an internship doing agricultural research at a nearby government sponsored research facility. Then she got another internship doing cancer research (some specific form of growing cancer cells and killing them). This gave her material for her honours thesis.
To look at a nearby American school, just now I Googled “Bowdoin College Research Examples” and found the following:
https://www.bowdoin.edu/academics/research/index.html
Bowdoin also has a coastal research center on Orr’s Island, which is perhaps 20 minutes south of Bowdoin on the coast of Maine.
https://www.bowdoin.edu/coastal-studies-center/
I would check on all of this for any one specific LAC before applying. I would expect the details to vary quite a bit from one LAC to the next. One common feature however is that a lack of graduate students means that the undergraduate students will have opportunities.
That’s kind of what I had suspected, slim pickings. Btw, marine biology research is not very relevant to MD/PhD. You need substantial external funding, infrastructure, and core facilities to support high-quality research. I don’t think that’s in the DNA of these LACs. Also, the professors are not going to be well known which could make it tough for LORs. Just my 2 cents…
2 Likes
Research-oriented LACs offer research opportunities through (1) for-credit courses, (2) summer positions with faculty, (3) financially supported off-campus research and (4) high expectations for thesis completion. As examples of recent thesis topics at an LAC, consider, as would be relevant to the OP, Impaired Motor Sequence Learning and Compensatory Mechanisms in Huntington’s Disease and Towards a functional role of tyramine beta-hydroxylase related protein.
With respect to rankings of undergraduate colleges, U.S. News, for example, does not include a “research universities” category.
1 Like
Reading through this thread and seeing the desire for research, definitely have U Rochester, Pitt, and Case Western on your list to consider. I’d keep them in that order personally, but any of the three have a ton of research available. With Rochester, a high majority of the undergrads on campus are involved in research - it’s a culture there.
Med schools are right there essentially on campus for all three too (just walk across the street).
1 Like