Chance a rising senior with a reachy list for polysci + suggest safeties and matches?

ive decided to take sac state off my list btw, I found that it has a rly strong drug/drinking culture. ASU and U of Arizona will only be affordable with merit, I don’t have my accurate numbers but with typical assets it’ll still be like 8 - 10k per year without the significant merit scholarships, although i don’t doubt i’ll get some of them. i plan to ask my GC once school starts next month. hate is a strong word, but I hate my local CSU (cal state LA). it’s quite literally in the next town away from me, and it just feels like it will be HS 2.0. UC Riverside is a high safety but I think a safety nonetheless.

also, a question. will this cycle be using the 2020 tax info? because I saw some of our numbers and my family’s income actually went up slightly because of government aid during the pandemic. i assumed typical assets because I don’t have those numbers yet and I went from 0 EFC to a 2k EFC. to be clear, in regular years, we would never have gotten that money. will colleges consider that 2020 was an irregular year and use previous tax info or am I reaching?

ahh i see. i think i’ll sit on emory and think about it a little bit.

My advice for an extra safety that’s affordable would be to apply to CSU Chico honors.

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FAFSA will use 2020 income this cycle. So sounds like your EFC will be $2k instead of 0. What site did you use to estimate EFC? FYI CollegeBoard’s estimator is more detailed and accurate than FAfsa4caster. I doubt schools will adjust 2020 income downward, but if there was a one time even like a bonus (or government aid), you could bring that to their attention.

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Also, 75% of students at W&L belong to fraternities and sororities, which is a deal breaker under your criteria. As for the improvement in diversity mentioned in another comment, well yes, the school has put a focus on that with resources and scholarships to mitigate its — ahem — branding problem. But W&L still has some of the lowest diversity stats among top LACs: they have nowhere to go but up.

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Very interesting. What would be the sample if it were everything above, except those that don’t require financial aid. Wondering about schools like WUSL or Vanderbilt or Northwester.

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I would need to go back to re-check, but I’m 95% sure that NU doesn’t change. Vandy was close to where they were (25%ish) and WashU was at roughly 30%. Keep in mind that these are still fairly small non-random samples. I think as a general rule with the need blind schools given similar scores/rigor/GPA, some will emphasize quality of ECs while others will lean more heavily on student narratives related to overcoming adversity. So they’re technically “need blind” but economic status can still be positively/negatively correlated to other aspects… in addition to test scores/GPA/courses I already set as equivalent in the screen.

With a non-need blind school, there is a decent advantage as a non-need student going RD. Some of the may be related to trying to control the aggregate aid award in a class. I also think a bit could be related to yield management to make constructing a class easier.

WashU is a good illustrative example. They aren’t need blind, although they are trending toward that goal under the new chancellor. Their aid is extremely generous compared to 99.8% of schools out there. Per NPCs, it is not quite as inexpensive as the Ivies, another 10 private universities and maybe 10 or so LACs. Students hunting for need often have much longer college lists than those without this concern. So if an applicant is chasing the very best financial package among a very long list of schools, the applicant probably can’t demonstrate interest as much. So the school may view that candidate as a highly unlikely yield target anyway.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the rates were very similar controlling for interest. Being unable to control for DI, quality of ECs, essay narratives, etc is why I caveated the actual percentages. That said, I do think there is an good overall theme to the numbers: if you are a competitive T20 type non-URM RD applicant looking for a spot outside of CS/engineering regardless of need consideration, your admit chances are probably 2-3x higher than a T20 school’s overall admit rate for the entire cycle. That won’t hold for certain schools (NYU should be more favorable than that, for example), but it does reinforce the concept that T20s should generally be considered reaches by everyone. Schools like Georgetown, Emory and USC may be legit matches. WashU may be a low match for non-need and/or high DI students. Vandy tends to be more strict with their quantitative metrics, so if you’re at the high end of the range unfiltered, that may also be a match. Naviance is a much better indicator if your school has a sufficient number of data points.

If an applicant is exclusively focusing on a combination of 7 Ivies+ SM + NU, JHU, Duke, UChicago, Rice among private national universities there is still a very good chance of a shutout. Emory, Cornell, Vandy (at certain metrics), Tufts, Georgetown, ND, USC and WashU (non-need and/or high Demonstrated Interest) are good acceptance “value picks”. If you’re going to apply to 10 total schools from either list above, it’s better to apply to 6-7 of the first 13 and 3-4 “acceptance value picks” that approximate matches than it is to throw all 10 of your picks into that first basket. Assuming you have a good fit with those schools of course. 3-4 from that second list may be able to create a single “safety in the aggregate”. UCs and schools like UMich depending upon residence can carry the same benefit.

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it seems to be kinda in the middle of nowhere (?) just checked google maps so i’m not sure

Great insights- thanks so much.

A lot of people really like Chico and describe it as being in a really cute college town with a good residential feel to the campus.

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Well, coastal/urban CSUs are heavily commuter and/or may have totaly unaffordable housing wth no aid to cover for said housing (since CSUs were supposed to be primarily commuter) and some, like CSULA, have paltry graduation rates.
Chico isn’t as heavily commuter, has a nice town, a good honors college. It’d be a good compromise for a CSU safety.
CSU Bakersfield is in a city but I wouldn’t pick it over Chico, and I think your discarding Sac State due to its environment indicates you prioritize academics and peers over location (since Sacramento is perfectly urban).

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CSU Sacramento is in the state capital, so its location can be advantage for a political science major who wants to observe (state) politics in action.

Yes, that’s exactly why it was suggested to her but she turned it dow because of the heavy partying on campus and students not taking their classes seriously enough (especially, I suppose, if you compare to UCB or other colleges on the list).

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Have you thought about Occidental? It could be a great target for you and they have a lot of the criteria you are looking for.

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i used the collegeboard estimator. i’m planning to apply through questbridge anyways which is better for explaining low income things afaik ? so I’ll be explaining that for sure.

ahh i see. still it seems kinda far from everything as a poli sci major ?

Fundamentally you are still going to need to speak with each school once you are accepted and ask for ‘professional judgment’…for them to remove the government covid aid from your family’s 2020 income. Some colleges may grant your request, while some might not.

I assume the Federal Covid aid paid out to some families in 2020 has to be reported on FAFSA…@kelsmom?

Covid aid is not reported on the FAFSA: NASFAA AskRegs: Are Stimulus Checks Considered Taxable Or Untaxed Income For Title IV Purposes, Including PJ?.

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Great, thank you…then you don’t have a problem (and a $2K increase in EFC) @harrypottereatspie!

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yes, it’s already on my list :]]