Chance for Above Average International?

<p>Hello everyone. As you can see on the title, I'm only above average. And I'm applying as an international from southeast asia who needs A LOT of aid.</p>

<p>top 25% of my class (out of 228) but my school is nationally known to be academically advanced and we do have really rigorous academics. i don't know how to compute for GPA, but i was on the honor roll freshmen and sophomore year (soooo close for junior year), if that helps. my grades kinda went down for the first half of senior year though. </p>

<p>varsity basketball (2-4); just waiting to hear from my coach but will become captain or co-captain, varsity soccer (2-4), president of the physics club (3-4; pres-4), environmental club (2-3; Vice pres- 3); cadet corp (3); catholic assoc. (1) </p>

<p>SAT: 660 verbal/ 680 math/ 660 writing
got low on the physics and math2 subject tests. retake scores haven't come out yet. </p>

<p>so i was thinking of applying to the ff schools:
UPenn
Dartmouth
Middlebury
Colby
University of Richmond
Brandeis
Macalester</p>

<p>which school am i most likely to get in? most likely to get rejected? any chance at all? </p>

<p>Please?</p>

<p>Hi. I am an Asian international student,too.
It seems like your class rank is not so outstanding. You definitely need to retake SAT (so do I. haha)
All the schools in list is far, far reaching.. well maybe richmond is match. I dont want to discourage you but you may need to find some match/safety schools.</p>

<p>UPenn--Huge Reach
Dartmouth--Huge Reach
Middlebury--Reach
Colby--Slight Reach to Reach
University of Richmond--Slight Reach
Brandeis--Reach
Macalester--Slight Reach</p>

<p>You are picking schools that are too difficult to get into based upon your statistics. </p>

<p>There are lots of high schools here in the US that are known to be academically advanced also, and as an international, you will be in the toughest pool for all of these schools you've listed (meaning they are only going to be taking about 1 out of 10 international applicants at a school like Colby, and only 1 out of 50 international applicants at a school like Dartmouth). This means at a school like Dartmouth, only the top 5 people at your school would have any chance at acceptance. </p>

<p>You say that you are in the top 25% of your school, yet every school you listed (even Richmond) picks about 60%+ of their students from among those in the top 10% of the high school class. At Dartmouth and Penn, 92%+ will be in the top 10% and the others will be athletes, sons and daughters of wealthy donors, or have absolutely outstanding music ability or some other specialty.</p>

<p>Also, if it's like here in the US, a 3.5 GPA is honor roll--yet the average student at Brandeis (one of the middle schools on your list) had a 3.7 GPA in high school.</p>

<p>Pick schools more in the USNW range from 55 to 77 (national universities) or 35-55 (liberal arts schools) and you will begin to get into range at which you will be very competitive. You should also pick a few a bit tougher than this and hope your good test scores get you into those also.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>P.S. Sorry to be so hard on you, but it's just that internationals know how difficult it is to get into the top schools in their country (like in China) but yet somehow think it's a lot easier to get into the very, very, very top US schools. This is something I just don't understand.</p>

<p>First of all, thanks for replying. </p>

<p>I have already checked most of the schools within the range you have given me. I don't doubt that they're good. But (and this is a very big BUT) most of them don't offer financial aid to internationals. That alone perhaps is the deal breaker for me. Although some do offer merit scholarships. I know all of the schools that I plan on applying are reaches, but only the really competitive ones give big aid. </p>

<p>Also, I can't seem to find any matches or safeties for me. </p>

<p>Any other suggestions?</p>

<p>It is true that most colleges don't offer f/aid; however, if you seek, there are colleges that gives merit scholarships.. I am searching on them too.</p>

<p>You also mentioned super reach schools giving aid- remember, those who get aid or scholarships from top schools are likely to be top students or students who need money desperately- that usually don't include int'l students cause they must have sufficient money to even get visa.</p>

<p>Why don't you look for public schools? They are generally cheaper in tuition. Look for schools like SUNY, CSU, Rutgers, etc.</p>

<p>I find it weird though that part of the application process in some schools (like Syracuse) involves giving a bank statement showing ability to pay. If I had the money to pay, then I wouldn't be asking for aid (need based or scholarships) in the first place. </p>

<p>Just something I realized while searching for "matches". </p>

<p>Applying is stressing me out and I haven't even started yet! Hahaha</p>

<p>anybody got any suggestions for matches or safeties?</p>

<p>This idea of internationals that they need (free) financial aid is a complete misunderstanding of how financial aid works here in the US.</p>

<p>There are a whole bunch of schools here in the US that give financial aid based upon need. Yes, quite of bit of this aid is in the form of loans, not scholarships, but there are many that offer a mix of the two--even to internationals--all based upon their ability to pay for costs without such aid.</p>

<p>As an example, if it is determined that you can afford to pay $10,000 per year for college, and the college costs $25,000 to attend (which includes tuition, housing and meals, and books, and some transportation), then the school will offer you $15,000 in aid to attend in many, many cases--and not just at the top 15 schools--but at about the top 350 schools. Now it may be true that of this $15,000 offered, about $7,000 may be in loans and about $8,000 may be in scholarships or work/study (meaning you work while in school), but that still allows you to go to school and only end up with about $28,000 that will be owed when you finish (not too bad when you consider that the school is giving you the equivalent of one year free, asking you to pay for two years, and loaning you the money for the fourth year at a very low interest rate--or allowing you to work it off--and allowing you to pay it off over 20 years or so (meaning you pay about $2,000 to $3,000 per year after graduation). </p>

<p>This may seem steep to some, but remember that you don't live here and probably won't end up working here, so the main reason they want you to come is so they can learn about you and your country--and you can learn about the US--and we can all have a better understanding of each other.</p>

<p>Sometimes, certain schools outside of the top 15 are known for their good aid programs. An example of such a school is DePauw University in Indiana which charges $27,000 in tuition per year, but gives an average grant (free scholarship) of $21,000 per year and loans of $3,500 per year. Lafayette College (in Pennsylvania) has very similar numbers (although it is pretty tough to get into). Another school with similar numbers is Lewis and Clark College in Portland, Oregon. Now I know that DePauw gives this aid to internationals, and I believe both of the other two schools I mentioned do also, but it may not be true that all schools offer their scholarships and loans to international students--it depends on the school. The reason some college don't do this is because, sadly, international students have a very poor record in paying off the loans they get--and enforcing the loan contracts is difficult once you have graduated and left the country.</p>

<p>Do a little research and you can find these schools. A good place to start is in the "Financial Aid" section of collegeconfidential, but the internet is also good, as is Princeton review and Collegeboard.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>P.S. The reason that almost all schools, such as Syracuse, ask for proof relative to "ability to pay" is because that is how they determine how much to give in scholarships and loans. Obviously, they are not too keen to give $20,000 per year in scholarships to someone whose family may be making $200,000 per year--or who have saved that much, but attempt to claim they have no money and make less than $5,000 per year while keeping the facts about their true finances hidden.</p>

<p>You won't be getting into any American top schools, so you might as well apply to a school in your own country. Not only will your chances increase, there is really no point to go out-of-country for college unless a) you will attend a very highly ranked college or b) your country as really, really bad higher education.</p>