Chance/Match: CA Senior; Non-Recruit Athlete; 35 ACT; GPA 3.93-ish (1 B); Mech Eng or DataSci; Help with Whole Shebang! (List; Reach Scholarships; Etc.)

Chance Me / Match Me!
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This thread is for my daughter, a mechanical engineering, perhaps data science student.

Demographics: US citizen, CA resident, Very Small Public School, Female Mixed-Race Hispanic.

Additional Info: Non-Recruitable National-Level Athlete, skipped a grade, graduating at 17.

Intended Major(s): Mechanical Engineering; newly considering Data Science as a possibility.

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores:

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.93ish
    (can’t access unofficial transcript right now, 1 B in dual-enrolment course)

  • Weighted HS GPA 9-12: 4.56

  • Weighted HS GPA w/out PE 10-12: 4.68

  • Class Rank: don’t think school ranks

  • ACT Score: 35 Composite - 35 Math, 33 Science, 36 English, 36 Reading (one high school sitting).

  • PSAT: 1400 (700/700) NMSC Selection Index 210 (in CA this misses the cut-off).

  • AP Test Scores: AP Eng Lang/Comp 5, AP Spanish 5, AP Art History 5, AP Psychology 5.

Coursework

  • Attempting to finish a community college Associate of Arts - Mathematics Degree - to earn in tandem with high school diploma, graduation May/June 2024.

  • Will have over 85 units/DE credits in over 25 courses.

  • Grades have been all As so far except for a high B in DE Calc 3.

  • Math Completed: Integrated Math 1, 2, 3, Pre-Calc Honors (all high school); dual-enrollment community college courses: Calc w/ Analytic Geometry 1; 2; 3 (B grade); Linear Algebra; Discrete Mathematics; Differential Equations.

  • Taking Elementary Statistics Fall 2023. (Spring 2024 choosing a programming course. Don’t know which is best to suggest.)

  • English Completed: Grades 9, 10 high school; two English DE composition courses, English DE literature courses senior year.

  • Science: Advanced Bio, Chemistry Honors, Physics (high school); DE Python Programming; Geography; Astronomy. Taking DE Java Programming, a Lab and another DE life science course senior year.

  • Not able to fit AP Bio, or another Chem or Physics class into the schedule (due to sports training and missing labs). High school does not have AP Chem or AP Physics. Would like a self-study option for Chem or Physics but don’t know what is best.

  • Social Science: World History, AP Psychology high school; DE Government; Economics; US History 1 and 2.

  • Foreign Language: 2 years French and Spanish (middle school); finished AP Spanish in Grade 10.

  • VAPA: Photography, Multi-Media Production, Individual Art Studio - about five practical/hands-on art courses. Two DE Art History Courses; Engineering Drawing.

Extracurriculars

  • Over 11 years in chosen sport; nationally-ranked this past season after a very long building phase (had national ranking in a comparable discipline in middle school); non-recruitable for schools. Biggest EC by far. Most training out of state.

  • Sport has two components: competitions, and testing structure to earn increasing levels of proficiency. Sent to international development camp in junior year, all expenses paid.

  • Working on volunteer hours, personal development hours past few years of high school.

  • No work experience or internships (lack of car most of year, affecting mobility). Trying to figure out what can be done about this - remote activities?

  • MIT has four portfolio options; can submit serious work for Maker, Visual Arts and Theatre Arts highlighting different creative thought processes

Awards

  • National student athlete award via athletic association (highest level achieved out of four possible levels; about 800 - 1,000 graduating senior athletes earn one of out of the four levels each cycle).

  • College Dean’s List past two years

  • AP Scholar of Distinction

Essays/LORs/Other

  • Not sure how this section works on Chance Me/Match Me.

  • Need to figure out best instructors for recommendations. Is a college math professor from junior year okay, since math hasn’t been at the high school for the past few years?

  • English teacher at high school has retired, but could be the most logical Humanities recommender.

Cost Constraints / Budget

  • In flux at the moment for various reasons.

  • There are no dream schools per se, but will be applying broadly. Willing to pursue reach scholarship apps (seeking merit if possible). Most out-of-state (California resident) options will be less attractive financially than in-state ones.

Schools

  • Looking to build the widest list first; can narrow down options afterwards. This first list will be uneven and could use much refinement.

  • Didn’t go to school in this country, so please excuse any list anomalies and give feedback on them with a minimum of snark!

  • Student is a bloom-where-planted type, and is open to anything in the initial list of schools. No set notions as of yet. Will have to whittle things down in a fairly timely manner, of course.

  • Super Reach: Harvey Mudd; Cal Tech; Stanford; USC; UCLA; UCSD; Berkley

  • Super Reach out of state: MIT; UMich; UIUC; Coper Union; GA Tech; CMU; Rice

  • Reach: Cal Poly SLO; UCI

  • Reach out of state: Olin; CWRU; UVA; UPenn; Purdue; Duke; Northwestern; Vandy; Pitt; Rose Hulman; Stevens; Missouri S & T

  • Likelies: SDSU; Cal State San Marcos; CS Long Beach; CS Fullerton; CS Pomona

Thanks for helping us get the ball rolling!

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I’m sure others will chime in, but my suggestion would be to add UCSB and UCD. If she is devoting the time and energy to fill out the application, she may as well apply to several campuses.

Is one of these considered your local CSU?

Have you looked at WUE schools?

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Your daughter is competitive at any university. For the very top universities (MIT, Stanford level) the large majority of applicants are academically very strong. It is very hard to predict whether she will get in. However, her chances are probably as good as anyone’s.

I think that you have a good list and your daughter is likely to have multiple acceptances to choose from. Among the highest ranked and most competitive universities, it is hard to predict which these might be.

I have a daughter who so far has only had one B in her life. I was actually very pleased when she got the B. It allowed her to learn that she does not need to be perfect in life. This particular daughter puts stress on herself to be perfect, and the rest of us, particularly her parents, would be best off to try to reduce the stress level. When she got her one B I took her out for ice cream on the way home from school.

This leads me to the observation that your daughter had done an enormous amount. She is clearly very intelligent and very talented. You should keep an eye on not expecting her to do too much. It can be hard to avoid accidentally or subconsciously adding to this stress.

Some of the schools on your list, MIT and Stanford come to mind but there are others (probably including most of your super reaches), do not have any merit aid at all. You can run the Net Price Calculator to get an estimate of how much you are likely to need to pay. You might want to think about what you will do if she for example gets into UCSD or even UCB with in-state prices and also gets into Stanford and MIT at full pay.

Adding more in-state public universities might be a good idea.

And you have a very impressive daughter.

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Linking to a couple of OP’s other threads for reference.

Experienced Posters: Help Me Not Mess Up In Guiding My Kid Through The Next Three Years.

Experienced Posters II: The Sequel. Hep me guide my STEM athlete kid through the next three years.

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post:1, topic:3645022"]
There are no dream schools per se, but will be applying broadly. Willing to pursue reach scholarship apps (seeking merit if possible). Most out-of-state (California resident) options will be less attractive financially than in-state ones.

This is not correct.

For example, with these stats, if she earns the diversity scholarship, she gets four years free tuition - yes you can use for grad school. Also free housing in year one and $1k in cash per year.

If she doesn’t win, she’s earn $30.5k off per year vs $33k tuition so all in with room and board less than $20k a year.

Arizona would be $30k off $40k tuition so mid to high 20s all in.

She could try if she has spots left for full rides such as the Johnson Scholarship at Washington & Lee or Presidential at SMU.

Other schools like Mississippi State would be cheaper assuming you are not low income. Then there’s many publics that will be inexpensive but maybe not as cheap.

As for your list and a lot depends on how much time was sue by in the sport since it’s the main EC.

Super Reach - it’s possible but as you say super reach. You do have to check how your AA fits. A public school might work best here - ie your credits may not all transfer and a CS major will be rigid course sequence wise. You may find out a lot isn’t accepted so check before applying.

Preach OOS - I think Purdue is not. I say match. Pitt, RHIT, Missouri Science & Tech, Stevens are safeties.

Too many safeties and likelies.

Step 1 - need a budget. A defined #. In flux doesn’t work. In that case you go low.

Step 2 - determine need. Take a few privates like Harvey Mudd, USC, MIT and do the net price calculator. So you have need as they determine - and if so, how much.

Step 3 - look at some schools and see how the AA coursework fits, if at all.

Too many schools but that’s easy to narrow.

One last thing - as a female, RPI might be worth a look - solid merit.

Best of luck.

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I am not familiar with WUE schools, and wouldn’t know which ones would suit my kid’s interests as of yet. Trying to create a list of schools to see what feels like a good fit now that she has to look in earnest as it’s senior year and showtime(!).

Mechanical engineering is still her first choice. However, she has spent the past few years going into the technical numbers of her sport. She analyzes figures and has good acumen in figuring out how things will play out. So now data science has come into the picture.

Pre 2020, we visited some schools while passing through town at competitions: MIT, Harvard, UDel, UCSD. Recently we visited Mudd.

My spouse has not committed to a fixed budget number (possibly wanting to see what acceptances have to offer - and/or not - which will protract this process until all financials are in). Ergo, my job is to ensure a wide list from “affordable” to “whoa, full pay?” so that the kid has options, and my spouse will determine what the family will end up committing to, finance-wise.

My daughter is flexible with locale and size; quality of learning experience will probably be the biggest factor for her (i.e. fit). This is the time to find potential “hidden gem” experiences. Along with affordability.

We can swing in-state UCs and Cal States, which allows us to explore out-of-state options.

My kid has had an off-beat enough high school experience that it could be interesting to reach schools and/or schools with reach scholarships - or not. So I am trying to put together a list of schools with “yolo” scholarships, because they’re worth facing the poor odds when she has CA schools at home to also apply to.

Looking to see what sparks as she reviews schools. But it’s hard for kids to visualize these things!

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I think the first thing you need to do is take your kids to some schools. They needn’t be on the list - just local - but find a small, medium, large. Find one in an urban or suburban area and one in the sticks.

What feels right, etc? Get an idea.

Back to your message - your spouse needs to get to a budget. Or put another way:

If U of Alabama is free including a year of housing and $1K in free money yearly - so maybe $60K over four years and UCLA is $160-170K, who wins?

If UCLA is $170K and MIT is $350K, who wins?

When you’re a full pay family, you have to decide a budget. Many of us are full pay families. I set a $50K budget for each kid.

Without a budget, you can’t be efficient and you’ll end up applying to the wrong schools.

So as a merit chaser, you need three things.

  1. A financial and admission safety - a school you’d be glad to go to and it will be the right cost. This could be an Alabama, Arizona, Merced, etc.

  2. Schools that are likely for admission and likely will make budget - this could be a Miami of Ohio, a Santa Cruz, Oregon State, whatever.

  3. Schools that are likely or not admission wise but are not likely to make budget - but can make budget - meaning a USC has merit aid or Vandy has merit aid to hit the target cost but an MIT has no merit scholarships and if you have a $60K budget, you can’t get there.

So - the most important school is that admission and financial safety - you need 1-2.

But you also don’t want to apply all over - for sake of doing it, if there are some schools that your spouse will not approve of. It’s easy to say, sure I’ll spend $90K a year - but it’s hard to cut those checks.

So you’re doing no one any favor without having a budget.

Here’s the WUE lists (you pay 150% of in state - in some schools like Arizona, the regular merit will be better).

Data Science - 6 schools
NAU
CU Denver
Boise State
Minot State
Portland State
Western Washington

MECHE
Alaska -Alaska Anchorage & Fairbanks
Arizona -NAU
Colorado - Adams State, CU Colorado Springs, Metropolitan State, CU Denver, Colorado State, Colorado Mesa
Hawaii - U Hawaii
Idaho - Boise State, U Idaho, Idaho State
Montana - Montana State, Montana Tech
Nevada - UNLV, UNR
New Mexico - UNM, New Mexico State, New Mexico Tech
North Dakota - UND, ND State
Oregon - Oregon State, Oregon Tech, Portland State
South Dakota - SD State, SD School of Mines
Utah - Southern Utah, Utah State, Weber State, Uber Valley, U of Utah, Utah Tech
Washington - E Washington, C Washington, Wash State
Wyoming - U Wyoming

WUE Savings Finder - WICHE

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Major-wise, does she have a particular interest within MechE? I’m wondering, if she’s interested in both engineering and data science, whether Industrial & Systems engineering might not span her interests the best. Then she would get an ABET-accredited engineering degree and a data science skill-set. For example: Explore UW Engineering | UW College of Engineering
Georgia Tech has a top program in this field (the top program according to USNews), and the major has multiple tracks, including one that emphasizes data science. Undergraduate | H. Milton Stewart School of Industrial and Systems Engineering
Berkeley’s program is also highly ranked.
I think a lot of students overlook this field because “industrial” sounds gritty and antiquated to them, but it can be a terrific major with opportunities in a lot of different professional directions.

Is your daughter going to keep training for her sport in college? Does it matter where she is, geographically or in terms of access to facilities/coaching, in that respect?

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My concern with all these reach schools is no AP or DE physics. For a potential mech E that’s an important class. I understand a trade off was made but clearly DE was an option based on all the math classes. Personally I’d reconsider the senior schedule to at least include physics mechanics.

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Or it could mean that the spouse will have options and require the kid to choose the cheapest college.

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Congratulations to your D on building such a strong profile while in college! I definitely think that she will have multiple options available to her.

I also urge your family to reflect and have some very frank conversations about the budget.

Does the fit of the school make a difference? Will it strictly be a cost measurement, as your D will bloom where she’s planted? Does your family qualify for any need-based aid (run the Net Price Calculators to find out)? Knowing the parameters and what the family is willing to pay for is what is most fair to your D and it can also help to narrow down the wide array of schools on the list, as it would be practically impossible to do a good job on all of the applications if the list isn’t whittled down.

Below are my guesses as to what your D’s chances are at the schools on your list.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Missouri S&T
  • Pitt (if your D submits a completed application within the next month…otherwise, likelihood drops)
  • Rose Hulman

Likely (60-79%)

  • Stevens

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Case Western: If your D shows lots of demonstrated interest here, then I think her shot here is pretty good. But Case does not like to be viewed as a “safety” for MIT, Cal Tech, etc, so if it thinks it’s in that category, your D is unlikely to receive an acceptance here. But they’re actively trying to diversify their campus and @Izzy74 has been impressed with some of their outreach efforts.

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Olin – acceptance rate for females is 39% compared to 12% for males
  • Purdue
  • UIUC – if Grainger separates out CS from engineering with respect to applicants…if not, I would put it in the low probability category
  • UMich

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Cal Tech
  • Carnegie Mellon
  • Cooper Union
  • Duke
  • Georgia Tech
  • Harvey Mudd
  • MIT
  • Northwestern
  • Rice
  • Stanford
  • UPenn
  • USC
  • UVA
  • Vanderbilt

Defer to Others (@ucbalumnus, @gumbymom)

  • Cal Poly – SLO
  • Cal State-Fullerton
  • Cal State-Long Beach
  • Cal State-Pomona
  • Cal State-San Marcos
  • San Diego State
  • UC-Berkeley
  • UCI
  • UCLA
  • UCSD
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Your spouse will figure out budget. You will create a list, but your student is the one writing all of the essays.

My concern is your child. College applications take a ton of time and effort. The CSU application isn’t bad, but the UC application is a bear. Add on several Common App applications (with multiple supplemental and honors essays) and your child is going to burn out well before your spouse has time to figure out a budget.

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Yes, the lack of a second Physics class has been a source of consternation.

The school lost AP Chem and AP Physics. The senior schedule (school started last week and classes are full at college): DE Stats, Astronomy Lab (graduation requirement), Java Programming, English Lit. Plus four elective classes at the high school (minimum enrolment required to be at that school).

Next semester’s calendar is not out yet, but tentative course list for DE: General Physics (this is available virtually), Life Sciences (her last graduation requirement for Associate of Arts Degree - woot!), an English class. Plus the four electives at the high school.

Is General Physics okay or meh?

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The first thing that caught my eye was how wildly different the experience will be among the schools on the list. CMU, Caltech, and MIT require a unique type of student who is ok with a very focused and intense experience.

For ME those schools won’t guarantee more opportunity or more pay for ME than you best state schools for ME (Cal and Cal Poly).

I also don’t think Case, Purdue, Pitt, Rose, Stevens or Missouri S&T are reaches. It’s very likely she’ll be admitted into all of them, some with good merit money.

I’d question the inclusion of UVA, Penn, Duke, Northwestern and Vandy. They all have engineering that’s ok, but not as good as your best instate options or even some of your safeties, and they’ll be expensive.

If you’re including Missouri S&T, I’d certainly take a look at Iowa State.

Finally, my son is a Cal Poly alum (BS/MS ME ‘19). PM me if you have any questions.

Don’t make the final list too long.

Good luck.

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General physics is better than no physics. It’s facility and level of math though that correlates with engineering success. She’ll be prepared. Some AOs might ding her, but there will be PLENTY of other opportunities.

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My kid got into Purdue with merit and didn’t take AP Physics.

It may be a rigor ding to some but it’s not going to stop your kid from getting into tons of schools.

But again, assuming you are full pay, a lot comes down to budget because if you have a tight budget, you wouldn’t be applying to many of the top schools anyway (the ones that have only need aid).

I think the student needs to do what’s best for them - the odds of getting into an MIT or Cal Tech or Penn are unlikely anyway.

And again, I would be studying these types of statement for every school so you can determine - do I want to even deal with this. While you’re not a transfer, you’re in essence trying to come in a Junior and especially for MechE, at the high end schools/privates, I dont’ think it’s going to fly.

So I would urge you to discuss/consider this restraint - vs. a public that is likely to be more “friendly” in this regard.

"Academic credit is not assessed until after you are admitted to XXX, at which point it is evaluated by the relevant academic departments. "

“Transfer students typically lose at least one semester of coursework. Most students enter XXX as sophomores, regardless of the amount of coursework they completed at their previous college(s)”

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Beyond that, a student needs to decide if they even want to go to Caltech or MIT. Mine certainly didn’t, and he was very competitive for admission. He was the Rensselaer Medalist, and Medalists on either side of him went to MIT.

They are good schools, but not for everyone. They will not offer a well rounded, typical college experience. That’s ok for some, but not for all.

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and that’s why OP needs to go visit places and get a feel for what they want - from size to environment and then after they figure that out can hit places for the vibe.

But I was making the comment on the published list - which I don’t know but I’ll assume was based off of pedigree and not the idea that one has to spend four years on campus, day after day after day.

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I note that University of Utah, Washington State, and Oregon State are all WUE schools (although receiving the WUE is competitive, not automatic, at Oregon State - don’t know about others).

Utah has a Data Science major. WSU has a Data Analytics major. OSU has a Computer Science, Data Science Option major (and a Business Analytics major in the College of Business).

I am most familiar with OSU and know it has a strong engineering program and it is fairly easy to double major, add a minor, or switch majors compared to schools that are more capacity constrained (like University of Washington or most UCs). I suspect the other WUE schools will offer more flexibility, too.

Good luck with your list.

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UIUC engineering admits by major, but ME (along with CS) is one of the most selective majors.

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