One thing to OP that I’d say - whether Ole Miss/MSU, Tulsa, Bama, UTD, Maine and there’s others - whichever financial safety assured choice you take - yes look at school characteristics but also look at course sequence/offerings to ensure they are robust and plentiful vs a limited amount of overall classes so you can pick and choose electives or a focus area - general or Astro or engineering physics or nuclear etc. This school should be a guaranteed to hit $ - not a some get and some don’t. @fiftyfifty1 often notes Fordham NM scholarships are not assured, as an example. But also you want a curriculum with options to handle developing interests so that might be a consideration as well when picking the one or two safety net schools.
Some schools will be more robust or have more physics offerings so that is another thing you’ll want to be cognizant of.
I would say about your initial list too.
If physics is your definite pull. It may be a way to prioritize who might be a best fit should you need to shorten the list which is a bit long and might be hard to complete.
And then of course NPCs as well.
Ps @DramaMama2021 might this student, if interested be a candidate for the Johnson Scholarship at W&L?
I think you’d prefer Ohio State over Miami University for fit.
Review their full ride Stamps Eminence. It requires meeting their EA deadline Nov 1, which means having your application submitted with enough lead time to follow up on any missing items like a hs transcript. You must also apply for honors and submit a supplemental Stamps Eminence application.
I am not suggesting that Bama should be the default position (not at all). I am merely suggesting that it may be too early to strike Bama from the list of financial safeties.
I would suggest that OP have at least two financial safeties, in this case automatic full rides for NM. I would not put Fordham in the financial safety category as its NM awards are not automatic and even with a full ride, cost of living in NYC should be a consideration for a low income student when they are comparing offers in the spring.
You’re definitely a compelling candidate for schools like Hamilton and Colby, but it’s not your stats, which are pretty much in line (especially Hamilton) - it’s the rest of the package. I’d put them in a similar likelihood as Emory and WashU. Also, since nobody has mentioned it yet, Tulane is a significant reach for anyone who doesn’t apply Early (and I’m not recommending that), just because of their approach to class building.
Most of your reach schools have an acceptance rates under 20%. That means that 80% are rejected. In that group of rejected applicants, there are plenty of high stats kids. These colleges are not just looking for high stats (they don’t need to do that as many many of their applicants are high stats). They are looking to craft an incoming freshman class…
So no…higher stats applicants don’t get admitted in a higher rate. These college simoly don’t have enough seats for all of the high stats kids who apply.
If it were me, I would add the following changes:
Safety:
-Substitute University of Tulsa (small private school, 25% NMF) and UT-Dallas (bigger tech oriented school with a nerdy non-Greek vibe.) Both are admissions safeties to you because both LOVE NMFs and both are essentially full rides for NMFs. (Alabama is also an excellent free ride, and worth checking out Blount Scholars honors program, but perhaps is too much like your in-state schools.)
Match:
Check out Smith, Mt Holyoke, Scripps.
Reach:
Check out Harvey Mudd, Pomona, Wesleyan, Carleton
Here is the thread about the vibe at big merit schools for NMFs.:
Best of luck to you! My academic profile and financial situation were very similar to yours decades ago, so I am really wishing you well!
IMO, you will get into multiple schools on your list given your state/region and family economic status. I would even venture to say you will likely get into multiple reaches.
I would spend your efforts narrowing your list so that you can present the strongest application possible. For many if not most of your reaches, the AO’s are deciding if you “fit”. Based on some of your comments, I think you would be wasting your time looking at big state schools that are known more for sports than academics. While these schools can provide great academics, the overall culture and environment are going to be different than what you seem to want.
Have you looked into “fly-in” programs for some of these privates that are paid for by the schools? Fall Fly-in Program: Caltech Up Close | Undergraduate Admissions. Unfortunately the application deadline for Caltech has closed, but you should check the others. This may help you get a betters sense of the campus environment you would be most comfortable with.
In terms of the “decently rural” part, I strongly encourage you to see if you qualify to be a National Recognition Rural and Small Town Scholar. This designation would be in addition to being a NMF. Some schools in particular are looking for this type of diversity:
The following link highlights the “STARS” program which is a group of schools that recently invested a lot of money in attracting rural scholars:
This is a good thought, though the deadline passed last summer, unless OP already submitted for it. College Board Recognition Programs were awarded in August, though some high schools did not distribute them until Sept, if at all.
OP, if you have this award (which involves a submission from your school to verify GPA), it would be sitting in your College Board Big Futures profile; scroll all the way down to the bottom of the profile page.
@Fiftyfifty1 has given you some great advice. I’d strongly consider subbing U. of Tulsa and UT-Dallas as safeties, if you think you’d be happy to attend them.
In terms of your “targets” I agree that your current list is primarily composed of reaches. Another school you may want to consider is:
Gustavus Adolphus (MN): About 2100 undergrads and produces a relatively large number of alums who go on to earn physics PhDs. I think you would be competitive for one of its full tuition scholarships which will also stack with need-based aid. As its room & board costs are about $11k (vs. other places where it might be $15-18k), this could be within financial reach.
Seconding St. Olaf (MN) and Harvey Mudd (CA), the latter of which would be a reach.
Also, seconding the idea of curating all your reaches into a number that you feel you can do your best job on each application with all of its supplementals. Eliminating schools that would include loans could be one filter to consider.
This is regarding Caltech. I don’t think you will be admitted because you are lacking “national” awards. High-stats there are expected and are a given, but they have gone above and beyond.
Our son attended Caltech. You need to understand something about Caltech. Yes, it is a small university with ~200 freshman there every Fall. Yes, it is a VERY beautiful campus and you can’t beat the weather or the community. I’ve come to the conclusion that students from all over the country expect that they will experience a type of nirvana if they attend a California college or university. Hold that thought.
Caltech, however, is a research institution. You wont get the college “experience” there. You will be expected to hit the ground running. Doing your own thing. The professors are there to do research. They will lecture, but that’s it. It’s off to their offices to do research.
Your labs and exams will be developed by grad students-some who have no idea how to teach or create tests. Many are new to the area or country. You will meet with the grad students for office hours. Students do have issues.
Pasadena is beautiful, but it is also in a very expensive area, and, given your budget, I don’t think you’ll be able to fund your “ubereats” meals that everyone seems to do there. They are so focused on their studies that they lose track of time and do the late night meals via Uber. ( I threw out a number of take-out containers on our weekend visits there.)
It is not for everyone. They limit how many students they will fund and some of that funding goes to international candidates that they want.
The point is that every one of your schools will be different, and although you have budget limitations, you HAVE to visit your top 3 because you will want to be comfortable wherever you land.
Our eldest child knew exactly how she would thrive, or not, at each school she visited. She landed at a very unexpected school: SUNY Buffalo. (She interviewed for Harvard!) She performed exceptionally well at that school.
Our middle daughter landed at UCDavis because she wanted a school where the students looked “happy” and “helpful”. That’s why she ended up at Davis. She didn’t like the “feel” of Berkeley where many of her friends attended. Those friends would visit her frequently at Davis because they loved the environment of Davis.
So I will ask again, aside from price what about Bama seems consistent with what OP was looking for?
We often hear how rank doesn’t matter because kids have to be on campus day after day. Weather, community, atmosphere, housing, food, majors, research opportunities are all frequently cited as being important yet all of these seem to be put aside as soon as NMF and budget come up with Bama being described as a fit that can’t be ruled out in spite of having none of the other attributes being sought.
I fully appreciate that finances are a gating issue for many but I think we do a disservice to students by ignoring all other priorities and preferences in trying to find an entirely economic solution to a holistic fit.
In terms of this OP I see how Hamilton relates to Colby to Brown to Harvard to Caltech to MIT and so on. I simply don’t see how Alabama offers fit.
This may have been due to COVID, but I was able to apply for National Recognition in December 2021 after initial deadlines and was awarded it in late December. I don’t know if they did that every year or if that was a onetime thing.
Bummer about the College Board Recognition Program deadline! But at least it doesn’t seem too late to contact the STAR network. They have some virtual events coming up. Would be worth attending, I think.
While I do think this student would be an extremely competitive candidate for the Johnson Scholarship at W&L, I do not think W&L is the best fit based on their stated preferences.
OP, if I’m off-base please let me know and I’ll be happy to share my kid’s experience (current junior, Johnson scholar with somewhat similar stats but not meeting any diversity check boxes unless service/social justice activities count).
I look forward to following your journey and have no doubt that your accomplishments will provide options that fit. I second/third/fourth UTulsa and UTD as possible safeties outside your instate fallbacks.
EDIT: I will add that it’s our opinion that my kid’s service/social justice activities DID COUNT. So for other readers of this thread that may be worth considering when applying for competitive merit. What are that school’s institutional goals and how can you focus your application/interview toward meeting them?
BIG EDIT: I was confusing threads. If the OP has interest in W&L, they do not need to worry about the competitive Johnson scholarship. Based on family income they qualify for full no loan aid under the W&L Promise.
I never said Alabama was a fit. I meant that I’d keep it in the mix for financial safeties until OP settles on two financial safeties. I agree that Tulsa and possibly UTD may be better fits for the financial safety category.
I have a perspective that may differ from yours. When you are a first generation low income kid, no matter how smart and accomplished, there are things that can come up that wealthy and college-savvy families might never consider. Transportation is one example. Having at least a few familiar faces on campus may be another. University of Alabama-Tuscaloosa is within 4 hours driving distance of almost anywhere in Mississippi. And Alabama can be made “smaller,” “less-Greek” and more rigorous by joining a program like Blount Scholars.
Basically, U of Alabama is another nearby safety to check into. It may end up being closer, cheaper, and more to her liking than Ole Miss and MS State, both of which the OP has on her list. I trust the OP will be able to research it and decide for herself if she wants to apply.