not unhappy, as i stated in the post i want brutally honest feedback. i’ll also consider EDing to the easier school close to home maybe. canada isn’t affordable for me
For this direction, you may want to consider a major in data science, with sociology as your chosen applied domain.
LACs offering a major in data science/analytics include Hamilton, Macalester and Denison; Davidson offers a minor; Wesleyan offers an established quantitative analysis center.
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Colleges and universities in the US, particularly the well known / highly ranked ones, get a lot of applications from international students. They will have a pretty good idea how your grades and other factors compare with other students studying under the same system.
“Top 10%” is probably sufficient for the University of Maine or the University of New Hampshire (whether they would be affordable I do not know). “Top 10%” is not even close to sufficient for Duke or Amherst College or Dartmouth College. As mentioned above, “top 1%” is perhaps marginal for an international student applying to the really top universities and colleges in the US.
When I see someone applying to all of the top 20 universities I am concerned that they might not know the difference between them. MIT really is not the same as Harvard, even if they are just down the street from each other. Dartmouth College is not the same as UCLA. If you know which top 20 colleges and universities are a good fit for you, this is likely to come across in your essays.
It is worth taking the time and effort to find out more about a variety of colleges and universities, and to figure out which ones would be a good fit for you.
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Please be open minded. Wanting a college because of prestige is close minded. Not wanting a cheap state school is equally close minded. Neither is a good look.
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Some misconceptions here:
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a lot of state schools aren’t cheap- and most aren’t for international students;
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some of the very best CS programs are at state schools
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what counts as “prestige” in CS is different than what counts as prestige to HS student, to parents, and in different fields.
As an international student your pros/cons will be different than a domestic student. Happily, you seem to have a local choice that you like, can afford and are highly likely to get into. So, it is entirely reasonable for you to say 'I am only interested in applying to other places that are better for me". Factors can reasonably include the perceived prestige of various unis in UAE. The relative importance to you of being in the US for undergrad is another.
Please listen to the people who are telling you that shotgunning so many unis is likely to be counter-productive. Pick the ones where you see a genuine fit. Students often don’t want to believe it, but the unis really are pretty good at figuring out who is likely to fit their place. That can increase your teeny odds into tiny odds!
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First question is how much can your parents pay? You say EFC is $20K, but have you spoken to them to see what they will pay?
Second, being a prestige hunter will do you no favors. You come across as someone who is entitled and immature. Your ECs are basically try-hard standard stuff.
If your goal is to study in the US then I’d try to identify a few affordable options at state schools that have good CS programs. They are out there. You might get into a T20, but you may not.
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I agree with @collegemom3717.
The OP’s statement about cheap state schools is confusing and makes me wonder if the OP is knowledgeable on the public options.
Is GATech a “cheap state school”? It is very highly regarded for CS and STEM. It is, I believe, one of the relatively more affordable options for non-residents at $52k per year (but not cheap in $ or quality IMO). Purdue is even less expensive and also highly regarded. These are just examples.
OP is correct that aid is much more limited at public unis so that should certainly be researched. However, I believe it is short-sided to dismiss all state schools, especially when discussing CS.
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So you’re too good for Michigan? Too good for Berkeley? Too good for UCLA? Too good for UCSD (which has one of the best CS programs in the world, by the way)? Too good for Washington? Too good for Illinois?
These are ranked above every single university in India.
You should think very hard about your options, and the fact that if yuour self-assessment of “Top 10%” is correct, you have two million people with a stronger portfolio that you will be competing against for a limited number of slots.
A little perspective - two million students from India would almost fill every single full-time seat in US universities.
If you turn up your nose at state schools, the most likely outcome is not a T20 (some of which are state schools, BTW) but not going at all.
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Wow ECs basically standard? Yikes. My kids who were admitted to Columbia and Georgetown didn’t have anything remotely this impressive (to me) as ECs.
OP is clearly uninformed about state colleges, and should read up on these, as some of the best CS colleges are public as has been pointed out on this thread.
However, this diss is irrelevant:
Given that OP said:
And has a strong backup option:
That OP has Indian citizenship is a technicality that IMO is irrelevant for admissions. She’s part of the international cohort of applicants and will be evaluated vs other applicants from the UAE.
As long as OP understands that shotgunning just the tippy-top schools isn’t the best approach and is happy with her home country choice, she’s fine.
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I didn’t realize that you were a citizen of India, but that you have always lived in an Arab Gulf state. Funny - there was just another poster in the exact same position, with very similar interests.
So, the answer to your question is, unfortunately, no, your stats are almost surely not going to get you into a T20 school in the US, let alone with enough financial aid to bring the cost down to 20K/yr, so it is unlikely to matter where you play your ED1 and ED2 cards. Since you feel that “cheap” state colleges (which would probably cost you about 60K/yr for tuition, room and board, and the required health insurance, not to mention your additional travel costs, as opposed to 83K/yr for the same at a private T20 type school ) are beneath you, you would be very well advised to focus your application efforts on alternative countries for college. You’ve mentioned that there is an institution in the UAE that appeals to you.
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But by the same token they are also above every school in the UAE. And the middle east in general.
And I think the OP is missing an important point - if it really is “T20 or bust”, the odds are that it will be a bust.
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Might I “suggest” cutting the OP some slack. She is not familiar with the US educational system or American culture. And English is not her first language.
Yes, the adjective used to describe state schools was unfortunate, but the key piece of advice on state schools that should have been imparted is she can’t afford them. Certainly, not the ones mentioned in this thread.
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Sure, but if Michigan or Berkeley isn’t prestigious enough, Alabama or Iowa State (to pick two that actively recruit international students) won’t be either.
The OP wants
- A T20 in the US.
- Someone else to pay for it.
- To get this with a record she describes as Top 10%.
This may not be possible, as many have said. A wise person would amend their plans based on this information.
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What can you afford? Is 20K what your parents can pay per year?
I would recommend you ED Amherst, because they’re one of the very, very few colleges where your financial need (as an international) will not matter in their decision.
I would recommend applying to Waterloo (CA) - topnotch for science/math/CS and requires a minor in sth else. Scholarship deadline is December I think (much earlier than the “normal” deadline). Would make it within budget, topnotch opportunities, especially if you co-op.
Yes, talk about girls&science/CS/engineering. Tell a very precise anecdote ONLY YOU could tell.
A big difference compared to the other poster is that you’re a girl, which is not as common as boys interested in CS. You’ll need to be able to articulate what you see yourself doing with CS+Sociology.
I agree with @merc81 and recommend you start expressing interest (ie., join their mailing list, read the emails they send, click on the links, send emails asking questions based on the links&emails) in Denison, Hamilton, Wesleyan, and Macalester RIGHT NOW.
Include others with applied CS/Data science+sociology majors, MIT, etc.
Your application IS impressive - grades, EC’s, etc. Even more so bc you’re a girl in the UAE. So, these top universities are not out of reach.
It’s also impossible to tell you whether you’d be admitted, because there WILL be equally impressive candidates. It’ll likely come down to whether your personality shines through your essay and whether your interest in applied CS/data science+sociology (with project to back it up, perhaps discussion with professors about said project, etc) will help you stand out or not.
I’m assuming you’d apply to NYU-AD for ED2.
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thanks for your feedback! would you suggest amherst over Dartmouth?
i can pay 20k/year. i cannot afford ANY state schools but people in the thread didn’t understand that.
Yes, because Dartmouth will look at your financial status before they decide.
At need-aware universities, that is, almost all universities offering FA to internationals: even if they want you, if they can’t afford to admit you, they won’t.
I would suggest applying to a few affordable universities you’re highly likely to get into, if only so that you don’t have zero admission - trust me, it feels much better to say you’ve been admitted to x and y with a scholarship (even if you don’t like x or y) than to have to say, publicly, that you’ve been admitted nowhere. And you WILL be asked, again and again.
So, DO apply to a couple (3 would be a good number) “face-saving” universities AND their Honors College.
One I’d recommend, with Honors College application AND Co-op application
https://cech.uc.edu/schools/it/academics/undergrad-programs/bachelorsofscienceininformationtechnology/bsinformatiotechnology.html
(it’s also worth looking into:
https://ceas.uc.edu/academics/departments/computer-science/degrees-programs/computer-science-bachelor-of-science.html
But because SO MANY internationals apply, the odds of admission with Honors and scholarship are lower - and I haven’t checked whether you can apply to both programs.)
Same here, apply to Honors (for the scholarships) - NOTE THE EARLIER DEADLINES
https://undergrad.cs.umd.edu/future
^this one is VERY selective but it has good scholarships so more a target than a face saving U. Perhaps not the right suggestion, not sure.
https://cse.umn.edu/datascience/bachelor-science-data-science
and finally
Once you’re done with the face-saving apps, focus on your ED.
You’ll notice that, thanks to the face-saving universities, your application has grown stronger as, reading and working on them, you’ve realized what needed to be improved. Win-win.
After your ED app, I agree you should focus on the apps to colleges @Merc81 listed, then add the rest of “T20” on top of those ONLY if you’re done with these applications by early December. If you have a month to focus on the other apps, then you’ll be able to do a decent job on them.
Dartmouth is now need blind for international applicants
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Thanks Ski.
Sorry @randomIntlJunior – I knew they were, then for 10 years (?) weren’t, and I hadn’t seen they had gone back to full need/need blind (or had forgotten).
The rest of my advice stands.
The “need aware/full need” dilemma is why we can’t chance you: between you (superb applicant) and another applicant who can afford 45K, they’ll choose the superb applicant with 45K and it’s got nothing to do with your credentials. The competition is insane.
But students outside the top 5% (usually in the top 10-20%) of my Indian IB high school have been accepted to Georgetown/Berkeley/Michigan/UCLA. Except UCLA, they aren’t T20’s, but your logic suggests a level of impossibility for students in this range to get into a prestigious school. Most students at my school are full-pay though.
Not everyone applies to the US - only a few stacked middle-income students going for aid and the full-pay kids, of which there aren’t many. This means the poster is competing with far less than 2 million students.