Please worry about you and your comments which I value. Whether you choose to value mine is up to you but no reason to criticize.
I simply pointed out 8 years of school is expensive - and pointed out a program and said perhaps there’s others like it.
Please read the message in full - you missed context. I used the words - as an example.
Yes there are some very strong students in ED (and REA/SCEA), but we have no idea how that pool might compare to RD in any given year. The primary reason that the ED acceptance rate is higher at many schools is that many hooked applicants are in that pool…recruited athletes, legacies, kids of admin/profs, Questbridge/Posse applicants, etc. The higher ED acceptance rate is not nearly as great when you back out these hooked applicants from the comparison.
That absolutely is not what that means. “Average” unhooked applicants have a near zero chance of admission to highly rejective colleges. For the schools that take race into consideration in the admissions decision, some may consider you as an over-represented minority (ORM) which can be a disadvantage.
IMO, although your stats and rigor look good, your ECs do look light, especially for T20s. Go ahead and pick an ED school in the T20, but you might really consider an ED school outside the T20 as well.
What is your affordable safety school? Your target/match schools?
Most T20s conducted (virtual) alumni interviews in the past two years, except for Yale which said due to limited number of interviewers they’d only reach out to those from whom they needed more information.
I have also heard from ex-AOs that I know, that interviews don’t usually make much difference (except maybe in eliminating candidates who are clearly not a fit or raise red flags). Take that for what it’s worth.
This is a chance me for T20 thread where parents and student are apparently concerned about prestige and have been thoughtful about cost and are fully prepared to be full pay. Agreed that not all questions have the same answer if the answer is to ever be taken seriously.
Specific to often mentioned Alabama it is a great option for cost sensitive or constrained students who have high stats and aren’t prestige sensitive (or those that like college football). This student doesn’t seem to be any of the above. Given she is from the northeast and Asian an additional consideration should be that less than 600 kids at Bama self describe themselves as Asian amongst a community of more than 38,000.
For a kid that asked for T20 chances with no financial concerns not sure how we got here.
As to OPs question you have achieved a lot to be proud of. Unfortunately you will be in a deep pool of similar candidates and will need to find a way to stand out. Please don’t go by the 50% you mentioned above as you will likely be much closer to the avg unfortunately. Worth taking a shot (and you have earned it), but plan around the next tier down to avoid disappointment.
Again to all - OP mentioned parents said budget won’t be an issue but as we all know, not all parents know school will be $340K.
Also - many parents - if they knew they could get $80K or $150K or $200K, regardless of what they say about budget, would take that.
#3 - I mentioned Alabama as a school with merit and mentioned many others. I mentioned their McCullough Medical Scholars program - because I know about it - and said - other schools may have something similar.
#4 - OP mentioned Med School - and we all know that’s a 7-8 year endeavor - so there’s another financial aspect and I’ve read many of our “med school” experts on these threads tell people to keep undergrad cost low.
I think you all pick and choose words I say vs. reading the messages in their entirety.
I’d appreciate if people would post their guidance without disparaging the guidance from others.
As for Asian and Bama - I talked to my son about this and granted he’s in engineering - says their Asian population is definitely healthy - other parts of the school may not be so.
I pointed out there’s special programs out there (that’s one I know of) - and OP can perhaps find others to pursue with the knowledge that they exist. They may have been unaware. I was until another poster mentioned.
Thank you.
OP, how do you figure that you have a 15% independent probability of getting in at any one T20 school? The fact that a T20 publishes an overall ED acceptance rate of 15% doesn’t mean that YOU have a 15% chance of getting in as an unhooked ED applicant. A lot of those ED acceptance slots are taken by kids with hooks.
You have strong stats and rigor. If your goal is to go to a prestigious T20 school, and you apply to a long list of them, you’d likely have a good chance of getting in to 1 or more.
But I don’t believe there is any one T20 school where you’d have a high chance. And it is very conceivable that you could apply to all 20 T20 schools, and get rejected from all of them.
Let’s say very basically – For the T5 - T10 schools… Harvard, Yale, etc – Your odds are very very low, even ED/REA. Talking under 10%.
For schools lower in the T20, your odds will be better. Take Washington University for example, ranked by US News around 14th, their overall acceptance rate was 16% pre-test optional, it’s now down to 10% with test optional.
As a strong candidate who would submit an ACT of 34, you are probably on the upper side of their acceptance rate… over 10% chance.
So that really takes us to the point you’re asking the wrong question.
Do you want to apply ED at a given T20 schools because you might have a 15% chance of admission, where another ED T20 school might only be 6%?
Your odds are low, at all of them. Make your ED decision based on the school that you most would actually like to attend. Go in hoping for the best, but be prepared for rejection.
Have a plan for EA and for ED2…
And it can be helpful to make a decision – For ED2, do you want to go with a T50 school where ED would give you a really really good chance at admission, or do you want to hold out hope for T20 schools, in which case you most likely will need to wait out regular decisions.
OP, maybe open another thread in another topic. Give us more information. Do you like big schools, medium or small ones? City or rural? Sports? What majors interest you?
Then come back here for chances when you have a list other than T20.
Using Harvard, I think the acceptance rate was 3% last cycle (60,000/2,000). Subtract acceptances of URM’s, athletes, etc. and the odds of an acceptance for an excellent average student like yourself is very slim. The same applies to other T10 schools.
I would reconsider OOS publics since you’re full-pay unless you really want a larger school. Overcrowded classes and housing can be issues. Limited access to professors, resources and majors are more obstacles to navigate.
I really appreciate your advice about cost and your suggestions. However, due to various reasons, I am not considering UBama
I would agree 1000%
Are the probabilities computed by Prepscholar website realistic.
https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/University-of-Pennsylvania-admission-requirements
This calculator gives a UPenn admission probability of 26% for an ACT of 34 and a Weighted GPA of 4.4. Not sure how accurate or realistic.
Online calculators are wildly inaccurate for highly selective schools. The calculators have no insight into important components of a holistic review such as your ECs, LoRs and essays, not to mention demographics and your high school profile.
Your ACT score and GPA (while excellent) are only a small part of your application to Penn and other Ivies/T20s.
As others have pointed above your chances are in single digit %.
I would suggest your best indicator is how peer students from your high school had done in prior cycles. The closer the comparison obviously the better the predictor albeit still imperfect. This approach tends to limit some of the unknowns.
I recognize for a public school student this may be tough but a good GC is your most informed resource if available.
Does your school send kids to t20s? Are they athletes? What do you or don’t you have in common with them academically and EC wise? Would your LORs be similar to what they likely received? I know this isn’t exact or scientific but it is more precise than any on line plug and play and can serve as a starting point.
Again no one suggested Bama. I gave an example of merit and special programs that are avail perhaps at other places.
Good advice, but I suggest comparing only against students who applied in the 2021/22 cycle. TO changed the landscape at the most selective schools and kids with similar profiles to those who got admitted in 2020 and prior were rejected or waitlisted last year.
A way to get around this is to apply to highly ranked publics that have a strong Honors college/living-learning program. Makes a large school feel small.
Also note that full-pay doesn’t provide any bump at the T20s and admissions to the most selective schools have become much more unpredictable in the past couple of years for high stat students with OP’s demographics. So it makes sense to apply to a few well respected publics. OP already has 4 on her list (though none of them are safeties IMO).
Re: costs…your parents have said they will pay for undergrad school. Will they also pay for medical school should you be accepted? That could easily be $100,000 per year for you. If you don’t spend money on undergrad, will they help with medical school costs should you get accepted. Just food for thought.
You have two state flagships as sure things. That’s a good thing. As a New England resident, I could guess what they are, but I won’t!
There are plenty of good schools out there. A few I can think of…
University of Rochester
Villanova
Syracuse
BU
BC
Tufts
For smaller places…
Dickinson
Union
Ithaca
Skidmore
Conn College
I’d take those calculators with a grain of salt, they are likely a bit too optimistic. I don’t think they are wildly off but there is far more for the very selective schools beyond the stats.
In terms of your grades and rigor, how do you stack up within your own school? And how many students from your school enroll in T20 each year? If your 4.0 makes you the valedictorian of your school, and your last 5 valedictorians have all gone to Harvard paints a very different picture than if your 4.0 places you in the top third, and only a handful of students to go T20 each year.
So look at your school’s Naviance or Scoir to get a better idea. That will likely be a better tool than the probability calculators.
Be aware also, for those super selective schools, it helps to have something “extra” to put you over all the other 4.0’s… Often extracurricular that really stands out. Something unique you accomplished, a major leadership position, etc. Handful of hours volunteering around the community is pretty common. Was your internship for an international NGO a handful of hours doing mundane tasks, or it is something you spent hundreds of hours and have accomplishments you can show?
For many of those elite schools, there will also be variation based on the program you are applying too. Getting into their CS program may be much much harder than getting into their History program. And then too, they will look to see if you have demonstrated a passion for your future program.
Point being – It’s a lot more than GPA and ACT score. You need to look at your overall application being honest with yourself, ask yourself if you’re going to stand out ahead of the other 4.0/34 students or not.
If the answer is yes… then maybe you do have that 24% chance at U Penn. If the answer is no, then your chances may be much lower.
Thank you to everyone who responded. You have given me a lot of points to think about, and also a reality check. I believe I now have a more realistic perspective of my chances.
Having the option to go ED, certainly helps your chances but on the flip side makes things a little more complex in terms of navigating different options. You have a very similar stats to my son and it’s a struggle trying to come up with a strategy. Here’s what I suggest you do
Pick out your ED school (compare a few options “What’s your Dream School” , " Who gives the best bump for ED" , “How much of the class if filled by ED”. Focus on nailing the supplemental essays and take your shot (By 10/15)
Send out a few EA applications to schools of interest. Would suggest you include one “Safety/Likely” (Rutgers / Pitt). Need to understand the ED/EA rules at the schools you are applying to. For example if you REA to Notre Dame you can not apply ED anywhere. (By 10/15)
Plan for ED2. To me this is the real tough decision point, do you take another shot at a school like UofChicago or Vandy? or do you focus on a school that you look at a school like Tufts or BU that you would have a greater chance at. Just to note it’s generally OK to send out your ED2 before you hear back from your ED1. You would jest need to withdraw if you were accepted to your first ED. (By 11/1)
Come up with a list of RD schools. Hopefully over the next few weeks you’ll focus your list around what you are looking for. Small LAC, Research School in a city, Geographic preference, etc. Once you’re there it will be easier for you to think about some more options for target schools.