Chance Me-Might Get In...

<p>You are reading correctly, but your mind seems to be processing incorrectly. Why do you presume to know exactly what is “good” and what is “bad”? Are you an admissions officer? Do you work at one of the schools? I admitted multiple times that my posts reflect my opinions on the matter, while you make these preposterous presumptions that waht you think applies to everyone. Unless you have evidence of the lack of a counterexample for your statements, do not write your opinions aas fact. </p>

<p>Secondly, how is calling someone else’s argument “insane” not subjective? Either your logic is clouded, or… well there really isn’t any other explanation, truth be told. And yes, I do know, as a matter of fact, a “stereotypical Asian” who applied t Harvard and Yale but was only admitted to the latter. Also, are you kidding me? Naviance? The information regarding colleges on that site are only general statements that may or may not be accurate. It’s a joke, to be exact. I don’t see what you hope to get out of it, unless you are a high school counselor. Please provide the evidence supporting your naming of those sterrotypes. </p>

<p>Once again, you make a huge generalization that detracts from your already weak argument. You just don’t get it. There’s much more to the process than SAT scores and GPA. Bioboy’s SAT scores are near-perfect, to be sure, but does that mean that he automatically falls into the criteria of every other student with near perfect SAT scores admitted to Princeton? Absolutely not. SAT’s are easy to study for, and thus should not be taken as seriously as the majority of the population assumes. In fact, I would be so bold as to say that the SAT does not raise his chances, because the admissions officer could see from his mismatched EC’s that he probably only extensively studied for it to get a good score. GPA is, I admit, a strong indicator, and perhaps would raise his chances a bit, but my overhanging verdict remains.</p>

<p>I draw those conclusions from my opinion. Why is that so difficult to understand? Do YOU know anything about the Princeton mathematics department? If so, please tell me. If not, for lack of a better alternative phrasing, please stop -ing presenting these rhetorical questions as if you had a deep answer to each.</p>

<p>Yes, those might lead one to assume results, but what is to say an admissions officer views them differently? That is your definition, and so be it. You are not an admissions officer, I presume, and therefore your opinion of what’s important is itself not that important.</p>

<p>Why don’t you analyze, then, the statistics of the applicants? You ignore the obvious possibility that perhaps it is harder for normal applicants to get into than normal Brown undergrad, but perhaps it is a bit easier for an obviously scientifically talented and oriented applicant to get in? You present “facts” without consideration. Blind trust in “established truths” gets you nowhere. In fact, such devoutness is the enemy of progress.</p>

<p>Perhaps you truly are trying to help the OP. But it seems obvious that you are now much more interested in denouncing me. A slippery slope, if you would, as you have begun the descent from barely contributing in the first place to now simply arguing with me. You say you are helping. You are perhaps helping as much as a second front in a war, if you understand my comparison. </p>

<p>Pointing out others’ “errors” is seen as an attempt to seem smart because it is a failproof way to denounce others, thus furthering your standing. Think about it.</p>

<p>Perhaps I was not too clear with that last sentence that you quoted. The second part was that which was referring to you. But as you have stated yourself, arguing semantics is a waste of time, eh?</p>

<p>P.S I am done for the night. Have a wonderful day tomorrow and I’ll see you then!</p>

<p>@Nikkor: I accept your excuse to not partake in this argument. And yes, you really should apologize. If there are mistakes in my thoughts, then be sure to point them out. This is all a learning experience, no?</p>

<p>

Exactly what could be “bad” about 4 years of participation in any given club and a leadership role in said club? I’ve now asked you this question thrice and you have yet to answer it. It doesn’t take an admissions officer or anyone inside the school to recognize that as a “good” EC. My presumptions aren’t really preposterous considering they are common sense. I have yet to see an admissions officer claim that dedication and leadership to any EC are seen as negatives, whereas many have claimed that those two traits are seen positively. That’s not my opinion, it’s that of the admissions officers. </p>

<p>

You give chances with a disclaimer that you can’t accurately give chances, and provide no substantial factual support for the chances you give. I don’t think it’s a subjective evaluation in saying that the chances you give are “insane” although I suppose I should use a different word. Regarding this stereotypical Asian friend of yours, I brought the point up as a guess that your “prior experience” constitutes the decisions result of one friend of yours, which based off of your response, seems to hold true. I’m not sure you understand what the Naviance system is. For schools that use it, students can see a graph which shows the admissions results from every student (not identified of course) that applied from his or her respective HS. The graphs two axes are SAT scores and GPA, which are commonly cited by admissions officers as the two most important aspects of the application (transcript/GPA and standardized test scores). This data is quite useful in showing that Princeton is, albeit slightly, more numbers focused.</p>

<p>

You make the same sweeping generalizations and your arguments are equally weak. I’m pretty sure that I “get” that the holistic admissions process is much more than GPA/SAT. However, nearly every admissions officer as well as most college websites state that transcript (GPA) and standardized testing (SAT/ACT) are the two most important aspects of an application. And no, his score does not indicate that he is in a group of students with a 26.3% acceptance rate. It indicates that for students with similar standardized testing scores, the acceptance rate is 26.3. And do you have proof that the SATs are easy to study for? The College Board reports the average score increase to be ~20 or 30 points if I remember correctly and last time I checked, the number of students scoring 2390 or higher is well below 600 out of the 1.5 million students who take it. Exactly how are his ECs “mismatched” and how do his SAT scores negatively impact his chances?

And your opinions are wrong which in turn makes your conclusions wrong. It’s not difficult to understand, it’s just difficult to accept as right. None of my questions are rhetorical, I’m actually asking you if you have any knowledge of the Princeton mathematics department, which you apparently do not.</p>

<p>Now, without further ado, from USNWR:</p>

<p>Mathematics Rankings by Algebra/Number Theory/Algebraic Geometry</p>

<p>1 Princeton University, NJ
2 Harvard University, MA
3 University of California–Berkeley, CA
4 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI
5 University of Chicago Chicago,IL</p>

<p>Mathematics Rankings by Rankings: Geometry</p>

<p>1 Harvard University,MA
**2 Princeton University, NJ **
3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology,MA
Stanford University,CA
University of California–Berkeley, CA</p>

<p>Mathematics Rankings by Rankings: Analysis</p>

<p>1 Princeton University, NJ
2 University of California–Berkeley, CA
3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MA
4 University of California–Los Angeles, CA
5 New York University, NY</p>

<p>Mathematics Rankings by Topology</p>

<p>1 U of California–Berkeley,CA
2 Princeton Uni,NJ
3 Harvard Uni, MA
4 U of Chicago,IL
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology,MA</p>

<p>

Since neither of us are admissions officers, the best advice we can give should be based off of the best information available. I’m pretty sure that the admittance statistics disagree with your evaluation of OP no matter how you look at it. True, I am not an admissions officer, but a simple visit to any colleges website will give you a list of what said college deems important. Furthermore, every admissions officer I’ve listened to has reiterated the same information, transcript and standardized tests come first.</p>

<p>

Barely contributing is much better than contributing false information. My help is like giving small hints to solve a problem, very minimal, but still better than giving the wrong answer like you, if you understand my comparison.</p>

<p>While I’ve provided substantial data and evidence to actually support my claims, you’ve yet to provide anything factual that defends any of your assertions and instead have resorted to ad hominem attacks and straw man arguments. If you choose to respond, please do so with real evidence.</p>

<p>Wow imagine my surprise when I log on to see nearly 45 posts! Well, Jersey13 and Gottahavawawa, I have learned a lot from your conversation. Please do continue as it is very helpful to me from BOTH of you. Before you two go on though, can you explain what the PLME Program is? Thanks!</p>

<p>[Let</a> me google that for you](<a href=“LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You”>LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You)</p>

<p>I am lmfaoing at Jersey and Gotwhah because they like debating over a 7th grader’s projected stats.</p>

<p>@Jersey:</p>

<p>I have not answered that question, because the answer is too obvious. Though the club and leadership positions themselves may be impressive, in the context of the application as a whole they do not help. You seem to be thinking of admissions as a formula. You are saying that X activities participated in plus Y leadership positions equal your chance of getting in. Perhaps if an admissions officer were a computer, that would be the case. Plug in the number of extracurriculars participated in, the number of leadership positions, the SAT score, the number of AP tests, etc, and get the decision. Obviously this does not work, otherwise all admissions officers would be out of work. There is a reason why people are chosen. They can see the big picture and reason adadptively. Sure, an admissions officer might encourage leadership and dedication, but did you ask him/her how much is too much? As in, how much is seen as bordering on joining activities for the pure purpose of trying to make an application look “impressive”?</p>

<p>For the second part of your response, thank you for correcting the word. Although, I still do not think that my chances for him were that unreasonable. Yes, I know many Asians who have had perfect SATs, GPAs, etc, but only been admitted to MIT, Yale, but never Harvard. I am inclined to think that there is an underlying reason. I do understand what Naviance is, as it is currently required of me to use it. However, though it shows the SAT scores and GPA most commonly accepted at the school, further factors such as rigor of the courses, weighting of grades, etc, lower the accuracy of the data, because a computer simply can’t process such factors well enough.</p>

<p>Part 3: So then what differentiates two students with the same SAT/ACT scores and the same GPA, from equally prestigious high schools (That type of occurrence is much more common than you might think)? This is very common in Asian students, who all study rigorously for math, science, etc, and who all follow those habits when studying for the SATs and/or AP tests. As a matter of fact, the SAT has become such a matter of memorization and preparation that I think it will inevitably be replaced, as it has lost its core function, identifying reasoning skills. Anyway, back on topic. Those two students would obviously be differentiated by less predictable factors, such as EC’s and essays. This is where whether or not EC’s “match” comes in. Say that student A has an SAT score of 2400, a 4.0 unweighted GPA, 10 AP tests each with a score of 5, etc, but has 15 EC’s where not two are related in subject, and he/she has a leadership position in three-fourths of them. Now we go to student B, with the exact same statistics but for the EC’s. Now, B has only 9 EC’s but there is a focus. three EC’s are related to helping others, four are related to science, and the remaining two are reminders of B’s excellent academic performance. B is president of all three helping EC’s, and two of the four science-related EC’s. Now B doesn’t need to become a leader in either academic excellence EC, because he could be using that time improving at baseball, which he plays recreationally and on the school team. A doesn’t play any sports. Now, even though A has many more EC’s than B, none of which is repetitive in theme, who would appear more well-rounded to an admissions officer? Who seems less “fake”</p>

<p>You do realize that an opinion can’t be wrong, right? conclusions can be wrong, and mine are as prone to that fate as yours, but your line of logic doesn’t make sense here. And here you have failed to answer my question. What do you know about it, if you’re so much more knowledgeable about it? And before you point to the USNWR, let me point out that those are generally acknowledged to be obscure and inaccurate, due to the lack of definable criteria to measure a school’s competence in select subjects.</p>

<p>Well now the “best information available” is truly, truly very subjective. How do you know whether or not, and if so, how many admissions officers I know? And vice-versa. College websites are made to look appealing to potential applicants, so they are obviously misleading as to your chances of being admitted. Just look at Harvard sending brochures. They want you to apply, due to the monetary gain for them, but that letter in no way increases your chances. And for the sentence regarding every admissions officer you’ve listened to, refer to above.</p>

<p>Barely contributing is much better than contributing false information. My help is like giving small hints to solve a problem, very minimal, but still better than giving the wrong answer like you, if you understand my comparison.</p>

<p>While I’ve provided substantial data and evidence to actually support my claims, you’ve yet to provide anything factual that defends any of your assertions and instead have resorted to ad hominem attacks and straw man arguments. If you choose to respond, please do so with real evidence.</p>

<p>Referring to your last paragraph, please explain how my opinion is wrong. And it can’t be, because opinions are never wrong. How is my answer wrong? Be courteous enough to explain. And the truth is, not only is that “evidence” you contributed very unreliable, it is also very easy to glean by oneself. Why would Bioboy ask this question on a forum, where people contribute opinions, if he were looking for USNWR? That information could very easily be found by a simple google search, and contributes little. I admit that you have perhaps contributed a little, but please do not blow off others’ information as false simply because you cite all evidence rather than incorporating facts into your own opinion, as someone truly looking to help rather than denounce someone else does.</p>

<p>@Bioboy: Hopefully you now know what PLME is</p>

<p>@Nikkor: Thank you for contributing something to help Bioboy, even if it was a bit mocking</p>

<p>@facebook: Wow, really?</p>

<p>Well rounded won’t get you into H and Y.
Every college has a personality.</p>

<p>You know, I seriously can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.</p>

<p>The “bioboy” comes from me. When I took AP Biology, I loved that class. The “12” comes from my brother who likes Tom Brady (number 12).</p>

<p>haha this is amusing.
anyway, bioboy, good luck! if those are your real stats, id say you have a decent shot everywhere, but now it just comes down to your ecs/passions.</p>

<p>i almost never do chances threads. lord knows why i did this one…</p>

<p>no one on CC can predict your chances of getting in, not even the adcoms on this site</p>

<p>05-10-2010, 05:48 PM #219
Bioboy12
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 35
Guys, I’m a freshman that just finished my ap biology exam today. I’m going to be taking the biology sat in about 1 month. Could anyone give me suggestions on which prep book to use and if I should choose E or M? Thanks in advance!
Report Problem Post Reply </p>

<h2><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-subject-tests-preparation/920434-may-sat-ii-biology-e-m-15.html#post1064844572[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-subject-tests-preparation/920434-may-sat-ii-biology-e-m-15.html#post1064844572&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h2&gt;

<p>Bioboy12 is a Freshman. You’re all just wasting your time in debating his chances. :)</p>

<p>Extracurriculars:
-Debate Team (11,12)
-French Club (10,11,12-President)
-National French Honors Society (9,10,11,12)
-“Grand Concours” Exam for French: Top 1% of State
-National Math Honors Society (9,10,11,12)
-Won many State/Regional Awards for Math
-Key Club (10,11,12-President)
-National Honors Society
-Chess Club (9,10,11,12)
-Won 1st Place in State for Chess Grade Championships
-Won 4th in State for Chess K-12 Championships
-Awarded at over 40 Scholastic Tournaments for Chess
-Peer Tutoring (9,10,11,12)
-Volunteer at Research Lab
-Internship at Johns Hopkins
-National Science Honors Society
-Tennis (10,11,12)
-Robotics Club (9,10,11,12-President)
-Won robotics regional competition
-Service Hours: 350+
-National Merit Scholarship Winner; PSAT-237</p>

<p>Please pardon me, but I can not understand how you would be in all those clubs, considering that you managed to find time for 5 clubs in 10th grade and 6 clubs in both 11 and 12th grade, assuming that you participated in these clubs weekly throughout the year, and were presidents in 3 clubs, and still manage to all the other EC’s you claimed you have to do. I agree with Gotta on not listing all the clubs you said to have to taken, but Harvard does appreciate well-rounded students, along with lop-sided students. And although many people do a great amount of training for the SAT’s and get really high scores, it would hard for the ivies to distinguish who prepped for the test of who truly has the natural talent of being able to score really high on the SAT’s. And theoretically, having this “natural talent” is very rare. More difficult questions on the SAT’s that you have never seen before requires time for true analysis and the use of your abilities, esp. the math section. Because of the time constraints on the test, you barely have more than 1 minute per question, when can be easily consumed by the difficult questions. With some training, you’ll be more familiar with these problems, enabling you to easily get answers after a couple seconds of examining it. So the SAT may not be a true indicator of your logical reasoning, (because normally it would take more than a minute to arrive at a conclusion), but in my opinion it tests really on your prior knowledge and experience with these questions. But think about it, would a college pick a person with a SAT score of 2400 (who has completed a lot of prep and training) or a person who is naturally a strong logical thinker, (with little preparation), who gets a score of 1900? Because its not like you tell the colleges whether or not you participated in SAT prep classes, they are likely to pick the higher score. Regardless, good grades a very important because thats what most schools are all about. But if these stats that you have posted contain any fallacy, please consider the time you are wasting of others who are using ther time giving valuable advice. Post other real questions you have if you need to. And if your stats are true, you have a higher chance of getting in to Harvard and the other ivies than what Gotta predicts. No school with a straight mind will reject you if you have amazingly high grades and scores, because, yes, there will be people like that in life, because it might after be a natural talent. (Though I’m sort of doubting your EC’s.) There was even a 5-year old who even attended the University of CA (if I can remember clearly from what I read from a world record book, not guiness) and graduated when he was 9. And he was asian.</p>

<p>Emeraldtree2,
Thanks for your opinion on my chances. I manage to find time to do all the EC’s because most of the teachers in my school don’t check homework. Homework is only done if you want more practice. I usually limit myself to 3 hrs of homework a day, then I just stop after that unless there is a assignment that will be graded. For tests, I really don’t study much because I pay attention in class. I only study a little bit for bigger exams or important tests. This is how I find time to participate in so many things.</p>

<p>Sophomore :)</p>

<p>also nice bio score
Thanks. And desigirl, what did you get? You were…</p>

<p>Thanks. And desigirl, what did you get? You were freaking out about your score lol…I got a 760-E…ok not bad</p>

<p>Your statistics are insane(ly good).</p>

<p>The ECs didn’t really impress me, however. </p>

<p>You’re a smart kid, however. And maybe Harvard will see that. :)</p>