Chance Me + School Search Advice - Prospective Viola Performance Major

First caveat is I mostly only know music school and conservatory admissions.

It is very difficult to assess your level on viola based on what you stated. Your rep sounds reasonably competitive for Tier 2 conservatories, but the lack of lessons and the middling youth orchestra placement suggest you might not be playing this repertoire at a high enough level. There are many people who play too hard repertoire badly, and it’s impossible to judge without actually hearing you play. (You can DM a video link if you want.)

As for schools, IF you play this repertoire well, you would be a strong candidate for schools like Peabody, Oberlin, Indiana, MSM, Mannes, San Francisco Conservatory, U of Michigan, possibly Eastman. Of these, Peabody allows concurrent study with John Hopkins, Oberlin is great with double degrees, Indiana and Michigan offer double degrees, and Eastman allows a double at University of Rochester.

As I am sure you have figured out, violas are in high demand. There are number of schools around or just below the above playing level that will throw a LOT of money at a violist who is talented. You may be able to get a full merit scholarship at these schools. Some options might include University of Colorado Boulder, DePaul University, some of the Texas programs, top state schools, etc.

There are also a few tuition free programs like Frost Conservatory or McDuffie Center for Strings which might be a good option for you, though I am unsure how double degree works at those schools.

Hope that helps a bit!

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Peabody doesn’t give scholarship to dual degree students. One of the Peabody viola professors also teaches at McDuffie; however, she has high expectations for incoming students.

@compmom @thumper1 @52AG82 @helpingthekid73 @parentologist @anotheroboemom @somethings @tsbna44 @worriedmomucb @aquapt @Publisher @TooManyViolinists

Hi everyone! Thank you so much for the plentiful advice - it’s all been very helpful in shifting my perspective on the process.

Since this is my first time on the forum and I left some ambiguities, I’ll clarify them here:

  • My initial impression is that I want a BM, but most schools are fairly unclear about whether or not that’s compatible with a double major in business/econ, so I have to do so more research on that.
  • My parents are putting forward $30k flat for the 4 years, NOT $30k each year.
  • No NMS/F, never took the PSAT
  • I’m a current high school senior applying (c/o 2024)

I’ll probably come back and share prescreening videos once I finish those to give some of you a better idea of what my playing level is; I’m definitely not NYO-grade but somewhere around California All-State, if that has any significance.

Thanks for sharing all of the info about loans and such. It seems that the only schools left on my list that would be remotely financially feasible are CSUs, UCs, and IU, which is unfortunate but probably should have been expected.

I’ll talk with my private teacher tomorrow about this situation; he was the one who recommended IU (his alma mater) and UWM (his former teacher is the professor there), so I would still like to keep those schools on my list. Otherwise, since I’m also paying application and audition fees myself, it doesn’t seem like a good use of time and money to apply to a school like Rice.

Honestly, it’s still a bit of a whirlwind trying to navigate the admissions process, especially as a student at a high school where hundreds of students get into schools like GT, NYU, BU, UCB, and UCLA on a regular basis. Do I need to worry about the “prestige” or renown of the school when searching, or would you all agree that financials should still be the main concern, especially when I want music to be part of my career regardless of whether I have a business 9-5?

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Financials - first and foremost.

Is your “business” career - music business? If so, you might look at schools like Belmont and MTSU - not names you know but big names in the industry.

If you want a business degree, then a school like Alabama would work great as it’s a great business school - and without music lessons (if extra), you’d be out at $20K or so a year but that’s still a far cry from $7500 - so how do you bridge that gap since you can’t get a loan?

UN Reno is also a fine choice price wise if you qualify for WUE.

Taking excessive loans when you don’t need to is not necessary and could prove harmful. I’m not a fan of any but if you need to go up to $27K - and you’re not seeking a musical career, then it’s ok.

Have you spoken to your parents. As they’re affluent with a $130k EFC, they really put you in a situation where you have to live home and go to the local school or a community college.

But again, others may have specific musical scholarships that can get you to the level you need.

One last thing - but you have to work quick and I’m not sure of the musical offerings - Washington & Lee seeks diversity and they have the Johnson Scholarship and SMU has the Presidential…both full rides. Look into both. Quick. Both have great business programs.

Unfortunately, your teacher may have great contacts but he’s not paying. Just curious - if your parents pay for him, why not college? Can you revisit with them? Are they aware of college costs?

Best of luck.

Music | Washington and Lee (wlu.edu)

The Johnson Scholarship | Washington and Lee (wlu.edu)

President’s Scholars Program - SMU

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Def agree on being quick - DD24 is locking down pre screen videos now for 1/12 deadlines (incl scholarships); i think some may be sooner. Others may of course be later but all of DD’s are December. She is also looking at combined BMUS/BA but also some without the BMUS where she can audition to add it in later - that may be a good option for you eg BU where they can do this in year 2, and also have good non music merit. But again there are deadlines attached to non music merit too at some places

I strongly recommend that you consider a BA or BS program in business or whatever other major you consider interesting, are good at, and provides a reasonable path to a self-supporting career. You can progress with your music via lessons and extracurricular performance, as well as electives.

In that case you do not need a school with a BM program. In fact, I would say that in many cases you want to avoid schools with BM programs that are known to be "good for music," because the best teachers and opportunities will go to the BM students.

Many colleges and universities that do not have a BM degree program, have excellent music departments and performance opportunities.

Understand that a BA in music is a liberal arts degree and may or may not have a performance component, other than extracurricular. Generally BA programs don’t have auditions for admission but have them in the fall for ensembles and orchestra. You can submit a music supplement as I said before, if talent justifies it.

UC’s, or community college then a UC, is your best bet, and many of them do not have auditions or have optional auditions.

Double degree is your other option, takes 5 years, so costs more. You don’t hear a lot about double degrees combining business and music.

Your academics are good. It would seem your chances for merit are better with academics than music. Do you agree? Check out Colleges that Change Lives. Clark U., is an example and they do give merit: as I remember it was for community service. College of Wooster, St. Olaf are on that list too.

I would encourage you to take a close look at Cole Conservatory of Music/CSULB. I would venture to say it is the strongest CSU in terms of classical music and attracts excellent students and faculty. If you are at or around All-State level, you would be well qualified but will have peers at that level. Tuition would be under $10K per year, but of course living expenses are high everywhere in CA.
CSULB has great programs in business as well, but you would need to explore the feasibility of double degree. I know a number of current students and alumni from the conservatory, but all studied solely music performance or music education.

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Again, sorry you’re in this position. I can kind of understand your parents’ view, too, since the fact is that you do have excellent education available to you locally, at very low cost. If they are immigrants from Taiwan, I wouldn’t be surprised if they grew up in economically difficult circumstances, and maybe college was free for them in Taiwan. Sometimes that leads to parents whose attitude is, “No one spent money on me - you can manage, just as I did.” They don’t understand that college is far from free here in the US. Interestingly, there are other parents who grew up with their parents helping them a ton, to the greatest extent that they were able, and yet they don’t want to spend a penny on helping their kids. And then there are those whose attitude is that they want value for their money, to help their kid along the path to financial independence and self-sufficiency, and they feel that does not include helping them to a degree in music, when they feel that it will not equip them to earn a living.

I was wondering who was paying for apps to that long list of schools. Now that I know that you are, you really must pare it down to be realistic.

Will your parents allow you to live at home and commute, provide you with room and board and transportation and health insurance while you are living at home, attending college? Can you commute to a nearby community college that has a transfer agreement to UCB? I’m assuming that UCB is commutable from your home - is that so? Is there any other UC or CSU that is commutable from your home?

Estimated cost of attendance at Cal State Long Beach is almost 29K, and you’ll have to travel back and forth at least twice a year, so add another thousand for that, possibly. You wind up with about 120K total cost for 4 yrs. How would you find the missing 90K if your parents have said that they’ll give you 30K, max? And can you be sure that they will even give you that? Are they willing to submit a FAFSA so that you can at least borrow the 27K total ($5500 the first year) unsubsidized federal loan that you can borrow without them cosigning?

Do you see where this is leading? You won’t qualify for fin aid. You’re unlikely to qualify for merit money based upon your music, although you might qualify for “merit money for B students” at a school with a conservatory or school of music, with relatively low academic standards, that would want you if you were to apply saying that you were planning on also majoring in an academic discipline, such as econ, fin, or maybe business. But you would essentially need a full tuition scholarship. Go on the music thread and ask for help from families that know more there - I know that there are kids with very high achievement in music (which, through no fault of your own, you do NOT have) who sometimes are offered very big merit scholarships - but they’d essentially have to offer you a full tuition scholarship for you to come anywhere close to being able to financially swing it, and that’s only if your parents don’t pull the financial rug out from under you.

Honestly, unless there’s someplace that’s giving out full tuition scholarships to academically high achieving students who want a BM and are self taught musicians with only recent classical instruction, who have potential but are an 18 year old strings player who is 5th chair in the local youth symphony, you really have no option other than the local community college to UCB path, all while commuting from home. I outlined for you how you can do this and get to UCB with junior standing in Sept '25. You don’t have to drop music - you can continue to study with your teacher. You don’t have to give up the idea of studying music - UCB has a music dep’t with several violin teachers, so you can double major in music and fin/econ/business/whatever.

Without a full tuition scholarship somewhere else, this is really your only option, as I see it.

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Your parents position regarding financial support suggests that they want you to attend an in-state public university.

While commuting from home. And they’re only offering him less than half the cost of in-state tuition, while living at home. We don’t know if they will file a FAFSA and allow him to borrow the 27K he can, plus he’ll still have to work part time to close the financial gap.

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Recommending McDuffie again.
From their website: “Founded as a special institute within Mercer University’s School of Music, the McDuffie Center for Strings’ enrollment is limited to 27 students: twelve violinists, six violists, six cellists and three double bassists. Students accepted to the Center receive a full-tuition University scholarship.”
Also from their website: "This degree is uniquely designed to allow a student to develop highly specialized technical skills and knowledge for an instrument or voice. Excellence as performers is the School’s goal for students majoring in this degree. They are held to a higher standard of technical ability, artistry, and difficulty. In addition, students pursuing this degree will choose an area of elective study outside of music. Various options include: Business, English, Art, Communication, Psychology, and Theatre. "
I know a student violist who was recruited by McDuffie (the center, not the violinist ) last year. He visited for two days and was impressed that “everyone is doing serious accounting stuff”.

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I am so sorry for the financial position you’re in, OP, it really sucks, but if your parents are only willing to give you $30K total, and you do not qualify for need-based aid, and assuming you would need to live on campus for most of these schools…Many of these are not going to be feasible, either.

If you’re in the Bay Area, the good news is you do have a few schools that may be commutable. UC Berkeley, Cal State East Bay, San Jose State, San Francisco State. The community college to UC transfer that @parentologist described is also a good option.

You can try for some external scholarships to help defray costs. But this is going to be a heavy lift.

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In this case, I’d be sold at full tuition scholarship.

Mercer is a fine school too but has a religious backing (baptist) which I think is held very loosely so likely not an issue.

But the student needs free.

Great suggestion!!!

Not trying to rain on the parade, but every option suggested except for living with parents and commuting to either CC or a CSU is over a $30K budget over 4 years. The CC to UC for two years route is close.

I had one kid at a CSU, excellent value but of course living expenses anywhere in CA will be easily $20K per year which would preclude living away from home.

I have another kid with a full tuition scholarship at a conservatory. The cost of room/board and travel (he is across the country from us) is not covered in the scholarship. So again, over $20K per year.

I do think it is worth applying to a couple of programs where a full merit music scholarship is possible. But know that cost of living and travel needs to be factored.

The OP sounds like a very hard working, bright and resourceful person. I have great hope he will find a way to make this work. There are some great options outlined in this thread, but really all of them will take some creative financing and decision making. And likely working some during school and full time during breaks.

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I’m curious, @eddythenerd - are you genuinely interested in studying business and/or econ, or are you just looking at it as a safety-net career path? Because, plenty of people have launched business careers with any undergrad degree, including a BM. You can always acquire specific marketable skill-sets through non-degree programs like boot camps, and you could do an MBA program later, without having a business-related undergrad degree.

How do you feel about living at home during college? If it seems like a healthy situation for you, it would relieve the financial burden substantially. The absolute most affordable path would be CC-to-SJSU… and if you’re within commuting distance of West Valley College, they have a particularly strong music program West Valley College Receives National Association of Schools of Music Accreditation | West Valley College Your first two years would be essentially free, and you could transfer seamlessly into the BM program at SJSU. (You could also get a head start on SJSU coursework in the summers, since summer session has open enrollment.) The music faculty at WVC are extremely approachable and supportive; you might get in contact to discuss your situation and see if they have any advice.

Some commenters here are focusing on UC options over CSU, presumably because of the belief that anyone who’s a strong enough student for a top UC should pursue that path. But even if Berkeley is commutable for you (is it?), it’s considerably more expensive than SJSU, and not noted for music. If you wanted to go all-in for undergrad business, applying as a transfer to Haas could certainly make sense; but for music I don’t see the point of stretching financially and logistically for Berkeley.

People are mentioning the possibility of working to bridge the budget gap, and of course many students do this, and working a few hours a week is entirely reasonable; but keep in mind that conservatory-level music study is very time-consuming, and every hour you’re out working for an hourly wage is an hour you’re not practicing or rehearsing. The ability to focus primarily on your music and graduate debt-free could get you farther, in the end, than a bigger name school. Also, high-profile summer programs could give your music career a big boost, but those won’t be accessible to you if you have to spend every summer working to dig yourself out of a financial hole.

You might look into U of Puget Sound as a school that’s strong both in its conservatory-style music programs, and its business programs, as well as being generous with merit. (I don’t know whether they’re generous enough, but it could be worth looking into.) The music school’s main page mentions “elective studies in business” as an option, which is relatively unusual.

You mentioned considering BYU; you might also look into how much merit you could get at U of Utah, which has top-notch performing arts programs and a cheaper-than-UC baseline price before merit, with the WUE discount. The Honors College could give you some excellent non-music opportunities (such as their Praxis Labs) to round out your education and expose you to alternative career pathways. (12/1 merit deadline.)

Other California schools with conservatory-level music programs and big merit potential include Chapman and U of the Pacific.

Good luck! You seem like you’re on a great trajectory; any number of programs could serve you well, and focusing on affordability could really pay of in the long run.

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The community college to college route is likely going to be your best bet, unless your family ups the budget. Perhaps if they see that you’re covering the vast majority of the costs (i.e. get a full tuition scholarship) that they will then cover your room & board expenses, but that is certainly a big if, and not a sure thing.

One school you might want to investigate is Cal Lutheran. It offers scholarships up to full tuition for both academics as well as for music, and may also stack awards (so a partial music and a partial academic scholarship to total full tuition). It offers a BA in music so it might be able to be combined in a dual degree program with business, if that’s what you decide you want to do. Within its music major it has church music, composition, music education, music technology, performance, and musical theatre as options, and it also has a separate music production major. It also has several business options as well.

Cal Lutheran is affiliated with the ELCA Synod which tends to be more progressive. For more on its beliefs, below is an excerpt taken from its website:

Include everyone.

No one here is an outsider.

This is one of the most deeply held values in the Lutheran tradition. And its importance is evident on campus — our students come from more than 59 countries and embody a wide variety of faiths.

At Cal Lutheran, your personal convictions and beliefs are honored, respected, and welcomed.

We also provide you with opportunities to consider and discuss matters of faith and intellect in an open and friendly environment. This challenges and strengthens you with new intellectual and theological reflections.

If UofPuget Sound looks interesting to you they have a couple named full ride scholarships that you could apply for. December 1st is the deadline to get all the scholarship requirements submitted. Look up The Lillis Foundation and Matelich.

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As a Texas resident, I can tell you most musicians aren’t able to gain acceptance to UT due to the very high academic standards. But I know some who did and then didn’t make the music cut. That said. I think that UNT and Texas State have a better music reputation than UT but a lot depends on your instrument I guess and I don’t know viola. (But for sure check out UNT and Texas State.)

He is the 5th chair violist in the youth orchestra. Say that they have two oboists in each orchestra. That means that, were he an oboist, he might not even have a seat in the middle level orchestra, certainly not the top one. I bet that your kid who is on a full tuition (merit, I presume? and this kid is ineligible for fin aid) scholarship at a conservatory - was that kid the 5th oboist in your local youth orchestra? I bet they were a heck of a lot higher than that.

I would not presume to judge any prospective music major’s level based on bullet points on a post. For example, there are some very high level youth orchestras where 5th chair viola would be very accomplished. I always recommend that applicants work with their private teacher to develop a list of schools that are appropriate to target.
Also as @TooManyViolinists mentions above, there are tiers of conservatories. So while @eddythenerd would not likely be at the level to target the full scholarships available at Curtis or Colburn, there may be a program out there where he would qualify for a substantial amount of money. It may be a long shot, but not impossible. And since he appears to have to choose between using his allotted funds on either living expenses or tuition, in my opinion it is worth a shot.

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