Chance me (UChicago, UPenn, Columbia, etc.)

Chance Me / Match Me!
21

“But this applicant ain’t NMSemifinslist— not even sending SAT1 scores out, and certainly isn’t going to get in for football.”

I was contradicting a point that ND and USC are nobody’s safeties, when they clearly are. I may have exaggerated when I brought up football players, but again, if you have a commitable offer to USC and ND, you are in the position to reject them, not the other way around.

"Being NMS is a drawback at USC, specially an Asian NMS as a large percentage of NMS are Asians. "

Being a NMS is not a drawback when applying to USC or anywhere, do you have data on this? Most, if not all NMS regardless of race get an interview with USC for their trustee, presidential, dean’s scholarships, assuming you get in of course.

“USC is not necessarily a match. My DS was a NMF, 36 ACT and straight A’s. He got into ND, Rice, UCLA and Berkeley but not USC.”

Right, I said match (50/50), not safety.

22

I mentioned that USC and ND are matches for nobody, not safeties…reading comprehension helps.

23

But they are matches for some…doesn’t necessarily mean they will be admitted, that is called a safety.

24

I haven’t given it too much consideration before, but am thinking of adding Georgetown to the list. Where on the safety/match/reach spectrum would that be on my list?

25

Georgetown is a reach for all applicants with only a 14% acceptance rate

26

@CADREAMIN @WWWard are extremely experienced with USC admissions. Hopefully, they can join in and give their perspective on an NMF’s chances for admission. I believe, even for a NMF’s, it’s a reach.

UMich will definitely be a reach for an OOS student. For the Class of 2022, the UMich OOS acceptance rate was 19%. There’s a regular CC member whose kid had a 4.0/1,600, but was rejected to UMich. Worked out OK, since the kid will be attending Caltech this Fall. And that wasn’t the only example, even a few high stat legacies were denied admission.

27

Yes… I would concur with @sushiritto that these days USC is a reach for all applicants.

In terms of getting “Chanced” for USC, it is virtually impossible for others to predict what may or may not occur in your specific case. With an admit rate now below 13% and falling, and with 4K+ applicants with 4.0 unweighted GPAs and test scores in the 99th percentile among those not gaining admission, an applicant’s success will instead likely depend on too many potential factors for anyone to correctly evaluate… making predicting admission nearly impossible. But this also shows that USC admits many without perfect grades or test scores. They are after all seeking to craft a well-rounded and diverse freshman class comprised of those who actually have a strong affinity for or connection to USC. They do aim to admit those who they project will thrive well at USC and bring something unique to the campus environment.

So an individual admission decision will likely come down to a composite and holistic analysis of your stats coupled with writing ability / essays, ECs, potential leadership roles, potential other unique qualifiers (URM, First Gen, geography, demographics, etc.), your Why USC? explanation/reasoning, etc. And that “Why USC?” explanation is likely the most important single component of your application. You do need to provide a well-thought out and well-researched answer as to why attending USC is truly significant and important to you specifically. And moreover, USC does want to gain a sense as to what you will be uniquely contributing to the greater USC community if admitted.

I would suggest the same approach to NMF applicants and non-NMF applicants alike when applying to any elite or Top 30 college or university… especially any program that now admits less than 20% of the total applicant pool. Assuming that your GPA, test schools and purely academic credentials will suffice alone to secure admission would be a huge mistake.

Before applying to USC specifically, I suggest reading through the very helpful insider’s guide to USC admissions…

https://tfm.usc.edu/a-guide-to-uscs-college-admissions-process/

Good Luck…

28

@WWWard I disagree that USC is “a reach for all applicants.” This may only be a matter of semantics if you overhyped your point for emphasis though as your general point of it being selective is true.

Any student with the complete package that can get into a HYPS and Chicago/ Columbia/ MIT/CalTech for example should have very favorable odds. It could easily be one of their safeties. USC has definitely improved its academic standing from the 1980’s and 1990’s when it basically wasn’t selective and now is a very desirable school for many reasons but it isn’t a “reach” for the very best applicants.

29

And the essay and extra curricular have to be great too. People focus too much on the numbers (and do do UCLA and UCB which is why the DS got admitted there).

At USC a top ranked quarterback could have a 22 on the ACT and get admitted. Same with many other top schools. Not Stanford. Helmet sports.

As someone who interviews for extremely selective schools, high stats are the entry price. What’s the sizzle?

30

@arbitrary99

As I stated above… with 4K+ applicants with 4.0 unweighted GPAs and 99th percentile test scores among the tens of thousands of rejections each cycle in recent years at USC, I do not see how USC or any comparable elite college or university can be automatically considered a certain “match” or “safety” for any applicant.

I have been a highly interested observer of the admissions process at USC since 2013 and have seen 1000s of shocked applicants here on CC turned away who were convinced that they would in fact be admitted. Just glance through last year’s posts in March for example. Even 90% of all legacy applicants are denied each cycle now at USC.

Last year, 66,198 applied to USC, and only 7,558 were admitted (11.4%). 58,640 were rejected.

To me, any elite college or university which accepts less than 30% should be deemed a “reach” by all those applying. Under such a scenario, even a stellar applicant can be turned away due to factors outside of their control… like demographics, geography, the major being sought, etc.

My advice is to those actually applying. Do not succumb to the temptation of overconfidence. Apply to a good mix of “safety”, “match” and “reach” schools, and then take sufficient time with each application… doing your best to make it stand out and see it tailored to that specific college or university.

Our opinions can clearly differ… but I had two daughters apply to a number of schools in recent years. They got in to some very unexpectedly and also got rejected by many others unexpectedly. In this new era of college admissions, with most applying to 10+ schools, predicting outcomes is a very precarious undertaking.

Good luck to all of this year’s applicants. Be prepared, but also be cautious. And do not simply rely on outdated assumptions when applying to any elite college or university.

And in the case of USC specifically, I can assure you that among the 58,640 who were actually rejected last cycle, there were tens of thousands who erroneously considered USC a “match” or “safety”. They were clearly mistaken.

31

@wwward

Our opinions may not be as different as you think. USC is a top 20 university, but the drop off from the top 5-10 is real, and the applicant pool that is selected by the top 5 is qualitatively different. You are focusing on GPA (which the quality varies by high school) and SAT (which even 99% leaves a large applicant pool). To that extent we agree. But if the GPA of 4.0 unweighted came from a highly competitive prep school such as Andover or Exeter, then USC could easily be considered a match if not a safety. Their issue would be to convince USC not to yield protect by rejecting them.

The difference is in the rest of the student application. Some of the extra circulars students have are pretty amazing and makes the difference. In our day, for example, it would be placing highly into the Westinghouse science competition (a friend actually won the nationals and was automatically offered admission into MIT, Harvard, etc. and became a tenured professor at HYPS.) Make it into the quarter or semi finals of NDT? Have an amazing immersion into some speciality field? When you interview candidates, as I do for a top Ivy, you can see the difference.

The best way for students to get a sense if any school is a match, reach or safety is to go to their schools Naviance portal if they have it, and look at the graph of SAT, ACT versus GPA to see the admits versus rejections. Also the blue bubbles where the student was accepted by enrolled elsewhere. I think that would be the most enlightening as it equalizes the GPA. Assume that is the table stakes, and now the quality of the student as reflected in the application essays and their extracirrculars become the deciding factor.

The volume of the school’s applications is a more meaningless statistic (hence therefore so is the acceptance rate). USC is believed to have such a good quality of life as a student (weather, sports, proximity to LA) that is aspirational for many. It’s a top tier but not truly elite academic school however so it’s a balancing of priorities. For almost all undergrads though, the academic experience of the school is what they make of it. One can get an equally great education at almost any top 50 school if they have initiative. I have found the difference is the quality of the average student you interact with. Go to a community college and then transfer to the state university and then do graduate work at an elite school and your career path is the same. The academic quality at a top graduate school is where the real difference is. For undergrad, I think class size and quality of the students becomes a deciding factor but starting at a good state university combined with initiative is no handicap.

32

@WWWard

So, what I am trying to say is I agree with you. I am just quibbling with the fact that under the two main statistics used here (GPA and test score) the qualitative aspects of the student that comes out through their essays and experiences and out of the class experiences is very real and can make USC into a match. Most students don’t however have that ability to differentiate themselves so your point applies. I would be proud of anyone that got into USC as its a fantastic school. But if they didn’t they can get a similar or better experience from many other schools and it won’t affect their career outcomes.

Initiative and curiosity and persistence are what is necessary. If for example you want to be a PhD in Literature, look at the bios of the PhD students on line or the professors at the top programs; you will be surprised how many came in through other paths than a USNWR top pick.

33

That rejection sounds like a yield protect though. If the applicant had convinced UMich that it truly was their first choice, I am sure it would be an easy admit.

34

Maybe. Dunno. But that wasn’t the only high stat applicant who was deferred and later rejected. And many, if not all of them (high stat deferrals/rejections), had sent in LOCI’s, mid semester grades, recent awards, etc. So, these deferred applicants had a couple or few months (January, February and March) to attempt to persuade UMich AO’s to admit them. I think it may be yield protection in December’s EA decisions, but by February and March, during RD, it’s probably no longer yield protection. And just trying to craft a “balanced” and diversified class.