Chance me: US Student to Oxford, UCL, and LSE

Student Lounge International Students
1

I’m a high school junior hoping to apply to Oxford for law and maybe some other UK schools. I’ve done some research and think I might stand a chance with my plans for this school year.

Sophomore
SAT: 1500
GPA: 103
APS: 5 in Calc BC and World History
Supercurriculars: Debate President, Mock Trial competitor on regional team.
Extracurriculars: Women Empowerment Treasurer, SHS Secretary, Raised $1,000 for Ukraine, Teach math 5 hours a week to kids, 100 hours volunteering for history museum, volunteer award.

Projected by end of junior year:
Score of 5 in:
AP US History
AP US Gov
AP Stats
AP Spanish
AP Language
AP Physics 1
AP Psychology
Additional SC: Writing competitions, Debate State Title, Law Internship, Maybe a writing summer program
Additional EC: SHS President, Women’s Empowerment Club VP, Raise $5,000 for Ukraine, continue past activities.

I know I have to do a lot of work this year, but I’m getting along well in my classes. I’m also planning on taking APES, AP Comparative, AP Lit, Differential Calculus, AP Micro, and AP Euro in Senior year. Please give me advice on how to optimize my chances this year and senior year! Also, I would love if I received chancing for an interview with my projected stats for Oxford, UCL and LSE. Thank you!!

2

Your extracurriculars are irrelevant for Oxford. What subject do you wish to study? There is extensive info on the Oxford website on how-to prepare to apply.

3

Law is a really terrible major to apply to as a non-UK/Commonwealth student. It trains you in the UK legal system to become a barrister or solicitor. Anyone looking at your application will wonder what use that would be to an American, and “because it sounds interesting” is not an appropriate answer. The only feasible answer is that you want to be a lawyer in the UK and you’d better have the right to live in the UK (eg your parents are British) for that to work.

Why aren’t you thinking of PPE like most US applicants?

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4

Unusually, i think @Twoin18 is understating just how bad an idea Law at Oxford is likely to be for you! It is an intensely theoretical course, and a meaningful number of the students that I know who have done it said that if they had to do it over, they would do history or something else they liked better & then do a conversion course.

I also think you are underestimating how much you are taking on for Junior year. The amount and difficulty of work typically jumps up meaningfully, as do EC expectations.

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5

You’ll need a bunch of 5’s in relevant AP courses to be competitive. I believe for LSE they specifically state 5 APs with 5.

Do you need financial aid? Unless you are a UK/commonwealth citizen it will be difficult to get aid.

6

No one can chance you for getting shortlisted for an interview just from your test scores. Most Oxford degree programs require an Oxford specific admissions test. In the case of Law, its a national test (the LNAT). If you pivot to another degree program (as wisely suggested above), that test is likely to be the Oxford Thinking Skills Assessment (TSA). Performance on the admissions test is highly correlated to shortlisting for interview.

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7

to clarify, LSE & UCL also require the LNAT- but I am assuming that you have already sat it, as Oxford requires you to have taken it by 15 October (LSE gives you until 30 December and UCL is sometime in late January iirc).

Fwiw, ime LSE is even more reluctant to take US undergrads than Oxford.

8

Everything everyone has already said about applying for law, and imagine me piling on.

Whichever subject you will eventually be applying for, you are making it MUCH harder on you by taking so many APs. Beyond a certain cutoff, they will not enhance your application, and the chance that you cannot prepare adequately for so many tests in such a short time and bomb some of them goes up.

Oxford will like to see hour score in calc BC for any social science that you choose, and world history and Lang and Lit, possibly in combination, for any subject you will be required to write essays in. No matter which subject you choose, they will not be interested in stats, APES or physics 1.

If you decide to apply for history after all, they will like to see Euro and US in addition to world. Again, they may not count the three history APs as three APs, but as long as you’ve got calc BC and at least one of Lang and lit, you’re okay.

9

Subjects like government, comparative and micro are only relevant if you happen to choose PPE, as suggested, but then you’d need macro, too (and macro and micro will count as one). And so on. AP Psychology, Spanish…as long as you have enough relevant APs, they are more risk than asset.

10

Activities which are directly related to the subject you want to study are not irrelevant, because they can serve to support your personal statement about your choice of subject.

11

As an American who is a UK legal academic at a top 10 UK law school, I have a slightly different take on this.

Everyone is correct thus far in that UK schools care only about test scores, including the LNAT. And any offer you do receive would be conditional on you actually obtaining your predicted scores. And you do seem to be taking on perhaps an excessive workload.

That said, in principle there’s nothing wrong with studying law, and I would be very hesitant of some of the advise you’ve just received. If you want to be a solicitor at any of the top law firms, I would highly advise against not getting a full law degree at this current time. With the change-over to new SQE, law firms are skeptical of the quality of incoming candidates, and conversion courses are becoming a bit rarer since you no longer need to do a conversion course to sit the SQE. This change was brought about by the SRA, and most top law firms aren’t happy about it.

This, of course, assumes you have an interest in studying law in England to practice law in England. Note: an English law degree only works in England. Just like a Scots law degree only works in Scotland (different jurisdictions require different degrees).

You can secure sponsorship for a visa at a number of London firms, but not all. And that’s something you’ll need to keep in mind, since it means you’ll have fewer potential prospects.

If you didn’t want to practice law in England, then the question becomes why study law here? Contrary to the above post, it’s perfectly fine to say ‘because I like it and it’s interesting, etc.’ Many law graduates never practice law, and we have no expectation that all of our students will go on to practice law.

It’s also possible to return to the US with an LLB and then obtain an LLM and finding a job in the US. This is, however, really quite difficult and typically requires you to have a very niche specialization, since US law firms will prefer JD candidates for virtually all US-law related positions.

12

OP- how can you project getting 5’s on exams in May when it’s only early November?

Slow down! You’ve gotten great advice so far.

13

Predictions have to be made by 15 October for all Oxford applications, and by the application deadline for everybody else. “Predictions” are standard in the UK, where the marks are the result of a 2 year cycle, so October is halfway through the process. For US applicants there is no point predicting anything but a 5 for a relevant course, as anything else won’t get you an offer. The trick, ofc, is that if your offer is based on getting that 5, and you don’t, your offer is rescinded.

The accuracy of predictions, and the appropriateness of predictions as an admissions metric is regularly debated in the UK. It is clear that predictions tend to be wildly inaccurate at disadvantaged schools, and notably accurate at elite schools- but that’s another story altogether!

14

I understand the prediction protocol in the UK… I’m just wondering how a US student could possibly predict a 5 at this point in the academic year (no first semester final grades yet, probably one graded paper in history?) And this is a junior, not a senior who has to worry about being rescinded!

15

If you’re not confident that you can ace AP tests, no matter how far you are into the year, you really have no business applying to Oxford at all. If you can’t find a teacher who can confidently confirm you are capable of it, you needn’t even try because yes, that’s exactly the prediction protocol. I don’t understand what your question is.

16

My question is not really a question. It’s a concern that OP is very overloaded for junior year, and that a wobble on an AP (due to being overloaded, too many tests crammed into the same week) may be problematic. Taking fewer AP classes and doing well in ALL of them is a better strategy.

And every single HS kid in America right now is predicting that they’re going to get all 5’s. And that their SAT tutoring is going to raise their 1390 score to a 1560.

And I’m going to dance with the Bolshoi…

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17

I had forgotten that point! APs taken senior year have to be predicted, but obvs not junior year.

I agree completely! OP has gone quiet though, so I don’t know if s/he is listening at this point.

18

Incidentally, two of my friends’ children who grew up in the US are studying law (undergraduate) at top UK law schools - one is at Cambridge (child of continental European parents) while the other is at Durham (no connections to Europe). I don’t think either can credibly claim in their applications (by virtue of having lived in the UK, having close British relatives, etc.) they want to be a lawyer in the UK.

Yes, but if you’re interested in practicing corporate law, being qualified in England & Wales (and in New York) affords a level of geographic mobility unlike any other jurisdiction.

19

My guess is OP is assuming

20

A vague and useless statement at best on this issue.

I can be qualified in those jurisdictions by any number of means, including a US law degree. And if I want to work in the US, I’d be better off getting a US law degree.

And I see no reason to think an English law degree is prima facie superior to a US law degree for the purposes you state…