Chance my daughter: Brown University

Demographics
US Citizen
Michigan resident,
High school senior dual enrolled at [University of Michigan]for Calc 3
Female/White

Intended Major(s): Physics, or Math

STATS
3.87 weighted GPA, 1550 SAT
Unweighted HS GPA: unknown
Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 3.87/4
Class Rank: none given at my high school out of 550
SAT Scores: 1550

Coursework
Currently dual enrolled at Univ. Of Michigan for Calc 3, Multivarible Calculus
Past or present courses with AP scores if taken:
AP Environmental Science, AP Physics Mech C, AP English (4), AP Chem (5), AP Calculus BC (5)
2 years French, 1 year ASL
Electives: Symphony band,

Awards

Extracurriculars
Managed multiple fundraising drives the last two years collecting over $3800 in monetary donations plus gift in kind donations for at risk families in the community, Detroit Symphony Youth Orchestra, Coach Science Club events for past 3 years

Essays/LORs/Other
Currently working on essays

Cost Constraints / Budget
Need scholarships, and will need to take loans.

My best guess is that you have above average chance of being offered admission to Brown university.

2 Likes

Especially considering your extracurriculars, and high SAT that recompensates for your GPA, I think you have a solid chance at getting in! Best of luck to you!!

Thanks. Can you share more information on where she may be lacking? She just starting to look at Brown University. We don’t know enough about acceptance and rigor for getting in.
Any more information to support your answer would be helpful to see the whole picture. TY

She is an impressive candidate! She isn’t lacking in any way.

With that said she is a “normal” competitive candidate at Brown. She will likely get through the first round of consideration which is largely quantitative (meaning great test scores, gpa, etc). According to a variety of admissions professionals greater then 50% of candidates typically hit these benchmarks at elite schools.

She will then need to stand out among a still very crowded set of over achievers. Specificity matters.

“ Admission rate: The University admitted 5.4% of applicants to the Class of 2025.”

Why Brown essays should not just be a vague description of interest in open curriculum or following in the footsteps of JFK Jr. Brown has a unique culture and set of offerings that the admissions officers are keenly aware and proud of.

To the extend a candidate can capture an appreciation of the uniqueness of Brown and over lay it against the candidates specific goals and aspirations they stand a decent chance.

Not sure that this is particularly helpful but hopeful your child gives it a shot and regardless of outcome finds a great fit.

3 Likes

Brown had an 8.3%=acceptance rate in 2021. The school should be considered a reach for any unhooked applicant.

3 Likes

8.3% I believe was the class of 2021


This is class of 2021 not 2025


The class of 2025 was 5.4%. I absolutely agree with your point just trying to ensure OP has the most recent stats and appreciates how daunting a process it is at all of the elites.

This is class of 2025 data compiled in 2021

3 Likes

Can you clarify the GPA? The weighted GPA you provided looks more like unweighted, especially since a max of 4.0 is not consistent with a weighted GPA scale.

2 Likes

It’s actually 3.5% in the regular decision round. Remember in ED a lot of athletes get in, as well as Questbridge. You want data for class of 2025, not class of 2021.

4 Likes

Your daughter sounds like a fantastic student and she certainly checks all the boxes for Brown. That being said, with an acceptance rate of less than 10% the odds are not in her favor. Unless a student is hooked in some way (URM, Legacy, recruited athlete etc) the chances for admission are slim.

1 Like

Thanks for asking. The high school weights the AP (and maybe AC) courses to one grade up. If you got an B+ in an AP class its weighted as an A-.
I believe that is how it works. Her GPA may be considered low in that regard. There are also a ton of Credit scores due to covid. All classes were pass/fail, credit/no credit for the Spring 2020 semester. So there were no chances to use the weighted scores for that semester.
I admittingly do not know the ins and outs. Does that make sense to you?

Usually a weighted GPA would be out of 4.5 or 5.0. An “out of” 4 usually indicates not weighted.

If the gpa you reported is truly a weighted GPA, I think Brown may be a very high reach for her. If it is unweighted, then it is somewhat better.

That being said, Brown is considered a reach for almost everyone. If there is something particular about it that she really likes, and you post that here, the hive mind here can likely tell you about other schools with similar characteristics that might also be of interest and easier to get into.

1 Like

If the credit/nc was mandatory, Brown would understand. Brown is open-minded with its own mandatory S/NC classes for a lot of the intro classes (my son was stressed out his calc class was S/NC for a premed class, but apparently, it’s never hurt anyone at Brown!). Your counselor should capture the credit/nc situation in their school report they submit to all colleges so Brown will get the background. They’ll just look at your daughter’s course rigor since it’s not her fault the school went C/NCredit.

It doesn’t hurt to apply ED if it’s truly her wish list school and you can afford it. I feel that Brown values the essays and LORs. Your daughter really needs to bring out insights about her that she wants to highlight, why she’s a good fit for Brown with her academic desires and curiosity, and how she can benefit the Brown community. They are a quirky group if my son and his friends so far are an indication. The first web meeting the President and Dean of Admission had after the kids were accepted, the Dean talked about how likely our kids were the quirky, unique and maybe frustratingly independent kids we’ve had to deal with :).

3 Likes

I assume 3.87 is unweighted. If it’s weighted she has zero chance.

If it’s unweighted and her weighted is 4.6 or above using plus .5 for Honors and 1 for AP, she’ll have better odds. But not great for simple reasons that no one does. It’s a tough admit for the best and brightest. This is the issue. Zillions of top kids all hit the same schools.

Also only two years of French will hurt.

As long as you have a list of match and safety schools, it’s ok to apply. But not realistic in acceptance.

3 Likes

@pricklypear1, I like your enthusiasm and positivity- but when you are talking about a school where the SAT score range for the middle 50% of accepted students was 1440-1570 in the 19-20 admissions season, a 1550 (obviously and objectively a fantastic score) is literally a middling score for a successful Brown applicant. ~95% of Brown applicants are rejected, so almost nobody has a “solid” chance.

@KSB2019, you may not know the class rank, but you (or your daughter) should have a sense as to whether she is in the top tier of her class. As for GPA (pre-Covid), were all the grades in the core academic classes As? As a rule of thumb, you wouldn’t expect to see more than 1-2 Bs.

Obviously she is strong in maths, and Brown has good physics and math programs. I’m sure you know how strong UMi is as well! One of the great things about physics at the UG level is that it is (relatively) flat, so she can focus on finding an affordable school that she likes, knowing that they will be able to prep her well.

Note that some “meets need” schools are also ‘no-loan’ if the family income is under certain levels (Dartmouth is $125K, WUSTL was $75K, etc).

2 Likes

Definitely apply ED. It seems to make a difference at least at our large public high school. Also have some real options for the regular round as she will most likely be attending one of those schools. Don’t make it all reaches and then a safety or two. Find some other schools she is excited about too. My daughter applied last year and did not get into her reach/dream school and this happens to most applicants.

I saw loans in your post. Ivy’s are $80k/year. How much in loans are you thinking? Run the NPC for these schools. Stop and think how $50k or more in loans would be a burden. Any more than the Federal loans of around $27k is a risk. Especially if med school or grad school is on the table. You basically have a public Ivy in Michigan that I’m assuming would be more affordable. Going into debt for an undergrad degree is a questionable decision these days. An Ivy education guarantees you nothing.

There are many good schools your D would probably get significant merit, especially a female STEM student. If you’re looking at Ivy’s would Cornell be on the list? University of Chicago?

I’m also assuming she’ll apply to Michigan and Michigan State? It would be crazy not to.

NC State or Ohio State might be affordable with merit. Maybe Rice?

1 Like

Calculate the unweighted GPA for core courses only on a 4 pt scale. It’s just basic math, and many AOs will recalculate as well.

Core courses are English, science, SA, math, FL. Assign 4 pts for A+,A,A-, 3 pts for any B, and so on. Divide by the number of core course semesters. Ignore electives and the P/F grades in spring 2020. What is that GPA?

Does your D have 4 years of each core subject area?

I agree you should minimize loans. What is your budget? What does Brown’s NPC give for a cost estimate? Your D can take out $27k max in loans over the 4 years of undergrad. Any loans greater than that will be on the parents.

If your daughter maintains her interest in Brown after further research, she may want to consider other schools that are like it in one or more ways:

These colleges represent those that would be strong for math and, often, physics: For Students Seeking a College Strong in Mathematics.

Brown is a very difficult admit for anyone, and I think her chances are very slim. Most successful applicants have never gotten below an A unless they are hooked. Maybe look at similar schools–the Koppelman article mostly also has reaches, so try for some schools with reasonable admit rates. U of R is a solid reach for her, maybe Conn College, Hamilton (on that list), William and Mary. Brown is always worth an application if she’s interested, but she should be ready to get rejected.

2 Likes