So basically my friend is freaking out(He just finished his junior year) that because he got a near perfect SAT but his gpa is low, that he wont be admitted to his dream colleges. He sent me his stats so I will send him this thread once you guys respond.
Intended Major:
Computer Science(or Software Engineering? Not sure what they call it as I’m doing it for a friend and I dont know much about that field lool. All I know is that he does coding etc)
Possible schools:
Cornell
Columbia
NYU
MIT
Stanford
CMU
Caltech
Georgia Tech
UMich
He’s a male URM who goes to a small school
GPA (He just finished junior year)
Unweighted: 3.66
Weighted: (not sure but he took 5 Aps total and a few honors)
He had a poor freshman year, but for the colleges that dont consider freshman year, he would have about a 3.8 UW
AP Tests:
World History - 5
Physics 1 - 5
English Lang - 5
Calc AB - 5
US History - 5
Our school doesn’t offer that many APs to begin with so his course rigor is sufficient for his school
SAT:
Not sure of the distribution but he got a 2380(or 2390 I forgot, he only told us by word of mouth and he didn’t physically send me this one).
SAT Subject Tests:
Math ll - 800
Physics - 800
Extracurriculars:
He didn’t send me this either but I know he is extremely good(state ranked) at a certain sport I won’t say. He also works at a company with me for this summer(internship) and he volunteers alot(we always do it together so about 100+ hours?)
He makes websites and is in the process of app-making
I cant really say much else about his ECs without more info lol but he is pretty “involved” in school.
Isn’t a 3.66 like a low 90? If it is he shouldn’t be worrying. I think he has a good shot at GIT, Cornell, NYU and UMich. The others are really low in terms of acceptance rate and there’s a degree of luck involved. (same goes for Cornell, GIT EA he should be a shoe in).
How is his class rank? 3.66 is very low for UMich and they consider GPA to be the most important factor. For CoE, their admission average GPA was 3.9 in the last few years.
The low GPA ruins his chances at Columbia, Stanford, MIT, and most of the other ones. Georgia Tech and NYU seem to be a pretty good shot, and Cornell is possible. Hope I could help.
Your friend’s stats are interesting. Their record doesn’t seem very consistent given the nearly perfect SAT scores yet low GPA. The latter will significantly hinder his chances at the Ivies.
^ FYI. UMich CoE has an admission rate of 27% last year and would be around 25% or less this year. Most applicants, particularly from OOS, have pretty strong test scores and GPA (average admission ACT 33 last year). With GPA 3.66, the chance would definitely lower than the overall admission rate.
@billcsho his class rank is about 3/60 @Bridgewood since Stanford, Umich and CMU dont count freshman year his gpa would be a 3.8
I think he should apply to one of these 3 EA/ED then apply to the rest RD because for the ones that count his freshman year, he would have his first semester of senior year to boost his gpa even higher to make up for it
Is your friend good enough at his sport to potentially get recruited? He has an Academic Index (AI) of roughly 234 out of a perfect 240 (assuming a class size of 300, and SAT I scores of 800, 790 and 790 for a total of 2380); his stellar test scores largely obscure his GPA for AI purposes, and all Ivies and top schools use AI for assessing whether athletic recruits meet academic requirements. Not to mention he’s a URM. Those stats would excite any college coach who is interested in him as a potential recruit. If your friend is interested in playing his sport in college, he should contact coaches at schools of interest. Many schools have a form to fill out to screen potential recruits. There are other people on CC - such as sherpa - who are much more knowledgable about this, and whether your friend’s athletic abilities would be of potential interest.
Stanford recalculates GPA and doesn’t include freshman grades. A URM with that GPA and scores and those ECs would certainly be competitive for Stanford, though it’s a reach for anyone. His coding interest would certainly fit in there. From an athletics standpoint, though, it’s by far the most competitive school on his list.
@renaissancedad he has certainly considered it but i will tell him all that you have typed. You can understand from our standpoint how stressful college application is for us teens, lol. Most people would consider a 3.66 UW as a “good” gpa but some not really for the very best(like top 10)colleges.
3.66 unweighted is pretty low these days for elite colleges. Ohio State has an average 3.6 GPA for incoming freshmen now (though not all will have taken a lot of AP classes, etc.). Obviously his test scores are crazy good, but that low GPA is likely a problem. Being a URM though in this case just MIGHT enable him to get into one of those top colleges. If he is good enough at his sport to be recruited (if so he needs to contact coaches immediately) then that makes this a slam dunk. Normally I would tell a student with a 3.66 GPA that they have zero shot at all of those Ivies and Stanford and MIT and Caltech, but with those amazingly high test scores, and the fact he’s a URM, he has a real chance. He needs to have great recommendations, great essays which show a passion for something, and then hope.
Cornell - Reach
Columbia - Reach
NYU - Match
MIT - Reach (not enough info about him to know on this one…MIT looks for a very specific type of student)
Stanford - Reach
CMU - Match
Caltech - Reach
Georgia Tech - Match
UMich - Low Reach
@HalfLife3, I understand that it’s a stressful process. I personally wouldn’t put as much emphasis on the GPA, given that:
Test scores are consistently stellar (2380+ SAT I, 800 on 2 SAT II's, 5's on 5 APs).
Class rank is in top 5% (3/60).
There is a strong upward trend in GPA, with the poorer grades as a freshman, and recalculated UW GPA is around 3.8.
Your friend is a URM. I am assuming he is a "true" URM for admissions purposes (African American, Hispanic, Native American, etc.) and not Asian.
Add those up and I think your friend is very competitive, even at the high end. Obviously there are no guarantees at places like Stanford and MIT, but I would think his chances are a lot better than the 1% estimated by @Bridgewood. As a URM alone I would guess that his chances are above the overall acceptance rate for those schools, assuming strong ECs, essays and recs.
Stanford discounts freshman year grades, so for their purposes your friend has a 3.8 UW GPA by your estimate. 28% of Stanford applicants last year had a GPA of 3.70-3.99, with a 4% success rate, making up 21% of their entering 2015 class. As a URM, your friend should have a better than 4% chance ON GPA ALONE.
79% of applicants were in the top 10% of their class, with a 5% success rate, making up 97% of the entering 2015 class. Your friend is in the top 5%, and is a URM, so his chance by this metric alone should be better than 5%.
We don’t have exact SAT score breakdowns for your friend, but with a composite score of 2380-2390 he must have had at least 1 800, and no less than a 780. That puts him in a range where he would have had roughly a 10% chance of admission last year, based on those scores alone, without considering his URM status.
Add all 3 up and I’m guessing your friend is in about the 7-10% acceptance rate range for Stanford, WITHOUT considering his URM status. Add in URM and his chances obviously improve. If his athletics can be a factor, they will improve much more.
Not a slam dunk by any means, certainly still a “reach”, but a decent starting chance. Better than the average applicant, and certainly warranting putting together a strong application.
@renaissancedad all your advice is GREATLY appreciated man. You even informed me of things I didnt know lol. Ultimately, from what i understand, even if he, I or anyonr else had quote on quote “perfect” stats(lets say i was an Intel or Siemens finalist) there is still a big chance some ivies(in this example) would reject me based on what they are looking for. Maybe an extreme example but you get the point. Thanks to all!!!
@HalfLife3 When UMich resumed GPA recalculation a few years ago, they started to include freshmen grades in the GPA calculation. But even with uwGPA 3.8, it is still below the admission average for UMich (3.9 for CoE). His class rank would help though.
@HalfLife3 Yes, 3.9 is the average while 21% of admitted freshmen at UMich overall last year have HS GPA 4.0. Go figure. The percentage of 4.0 students is likely even higher for CoE. Assuming the distribution is symmetrical, GPA3.8 would be near the 25th percentile. Indeed, I know an in student with 3.8+ GPA and 33 in ACT got rejected from CoE this year. By the way, Michigan has banned affirmative act in college admission.
@billcsho despite these odds, i think he will still apply. It is still a crapshoot since after looking up stats for SCS at CMU(i think thats what he will choose since he does CS?) has a 4-5% acceptance rate
By all means he should apply if he is interested in any of them disregarding the low chances. Otherwise, no one would apply to Ivies and Stanford. Good luck to him.