Chance thread for me (this is chance the adjective)

Chance Me / Match Me!
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<p>UW GPA: 3.9
W GPA: 4.519 (best in class right now is 4.53something)
Rank: 3/225-240 (something like that)
Major: Physics/Mathematics</p>

<p>SAT: (one sitting): 2250 (800M, 670CR, 780W)
SAT IIs: 800 Chem, 800 Math II, 790 Bio-M</p>

<p>APs: Bio 5, Chem 5, Calculus BC 5 (AB:5) (Selfstudied), Latin Virgil 5 (selfstudied)
6 AP Classes senior year</p>

<p>ECs:
*Wrestling (4 year varsity, captain, various awards)
*Piano (10 years, hobby, can play the most advanced classical pieces)
*Tutoring (through SPED program summer 08, formed my own business after that)
*150+ hours of Community service
*Engineering Club (Founder, President, MIT seniors will be helping us this year with the program)
*Web Design (formal job summer 08, making a website for pay right now freelance)
*Computer/Electronics activities (build computers for people in school, have various electronics projects, incorporating my computer and electronics hobbies into engineering club)
*Independent Studies (I do a lot of educational work outside of school. I attend programs, participate in CTY distance education, have selfstudied two ap exams, and use what I learn outside of school to help with my other activities. It is a big thing that I do, especially when studying math/computer related things. I am taking a class in Linear Algebra, I self studied multivariable calculus, and later I will be doing analysis and diffeq)</p>

<p>Awards:
Some wrestling awards
Science award
Book award
AP Scholar with Honor
National Latin Exam 3x Summa Cum Laude</p>

<p>Summer Experiences:
School trip to europe
Tutoring
Web design
Engineering club activities
Off season wrestling and running
CTY courses</p>

<p>I am looking into Princeton, MIT, Harvard, UPenn, JHU, Brown, Carnegie Mellon, and BC as my main schools. I am not sure about any other regular schools or back up schools.</p>

<p>Quick Edit:</p>

<p>I also was appointed to the town wide committee on gifted education by the superintendent. That would count as honor/activity.</p>

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<p>And please actually post…it is annoying to have 100 views and no posts.</p>

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<p>Princeton-Reach
MIT- High Reach (sorry, it’s a huge crapshoot for MIT for anyone, even with perfect stats)
Harvard- Reach
UPenn- Reach/maybe low reach
JHU- Match
Brown- Match/Low Reach
Carnegie Mellon- Match definitely
BC- No clue (sorry)</p>

<p>You have amazing and I mean amazing stats, but for Ivies, you just can’t say much. I’d put my money in you getting into at least one of the top schools though.</p>

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<p>Also I am white.</p>

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<p>BC and CMU look good, maybe JHU, but your CR score will be an issue at the others. It’s 130 points below the 75th percentile at your first 3 schools and about 100 points below at Penn. With no stand out EC, I’d say your chances are slim.</p>

<p>Unless you’re from an underrepresented state (but it sounds like you’re from very overrepresented MA), are very low income or have another tip factor, I’d seriously think about upping that score for a fighting chance at the ivies.</p>

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<p>Ok…130 points from the 75th percentile is either 530 or 800. I’m assuming 800. I think that you have a perception that all people that have lower CR scores that can get in are only minorities or athletes. Someone from my school two years ago had an even lower CR score and was quite similar to me in that this person held no major awards or over the top impressive ECs and he got into Harvard, Yale, and Stanford. So I really think that you are putting too much weight on the SATs as the only admissions factor. Tell me this, do you think that my scores will get me into the next admissions round (ie will it get me into that 70% of people that are qualified to attend HYPMS range)? If not, I would consider retaking. However, I doubt that with my other scores that the one bad CR score will ruin my chances at any top school.</p>

<p>In regard to my essays, all my essays relate back to my personality/interests/activities in a subtle yet noticeable way. So I think that my essays are pretty solid in that they show who I am and give a better understanding of my interests and such. My recommendations should be some of the best from my school; however, my teachers are going to only talk about their experiences with me in the classroom, since they cannot realistically comment on my activities.</p>

<p>More chances?</p>

<p>EDIT: Also, there are plenty of people who barely even have 2100s that get into the non-HYP ivies + JHU…and no, they are not URMs.</p>

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<p>If you can’t take criticism, then don’t make a chance thread. Instead, just go ask your mom to stroke your ego for you and don’t waste our time.</p>

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<p>Certainly your choice whether to retake, but you don’t have a good understanding of elite college admisssions if you don’t understand that a key score that below median is a deal breaker.</p>

<p>Here’s data from Brown, where 8.8% of applicants with your CR score are admitted. And that includes the 40% who are hooked and can have lower scores:</p>

<p><a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University;

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<p>Can you cite your source for this? Having work in ivy admissions, my experiences was that those with below median stats were virtually all hooked.</p>

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<p>Ivys are hard. </p>

<p>Princeton-Reach
MIT- Reach
Harvard- Reach
UPenn- Lowish reach
JHU- Match
Brown- low reach
Carnegie Mellon- Match
BC- match</p>

<p>For a safety check out U Rochester or Michigan/Wisconsin.</p>

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<p>I think more than anything else, that CR score seems like an anomaly, what with all the near perfect scores you have. I don’t think you have anything to lose taking the test again, and will almost certainly get that score up improving your chances even more. We’re only talking about a little study and a few hours taking a test (plus the exam fee which isn’t much).</p>

<p>You might still get in to one of those super high Ivies, but if you don’t, do you want to be asking yourself if the reason is one stupid exam score? These schools get so many superlative applicants they are just looking for any reason to reject someone.</p>

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<p>This post is for hmom5:</p>

<p>Someone from my school got into JHU unhooked with high 2000 SAT scores and another with low 2100s. The person I knew who got into yale, harvard, and stanford had SAT CR score of 630. That person’s activities and awards were not very impressive in comparison to some outstanding applicants.</p>

<p>The thing I am asking though is: I am below median in only one section. All others are above 75th percentile or at it. So I have 5 scores above median/75% and 1 below. Will that 1 below be a determining factor that is looked at over everything else in my application? How much will that one score affect everything else? Can just one score destroy my entire application? See, I am not entirely sure that my grades and other test scores cannot possibly make up for that relatively low CR score, which isn’t even that far from the 25% percentile for Harvard and Princeton, and is within it for the others.</p>

<p>Also, how can you just go by the admit rates for the CR score? If you look at the math and writing scores on brown’s page ([Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures](<a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University)), you will see that having an 800 in math yields a 20.4% admit rate, writing 750-790 a 16.7%, and for being #2 in the class (which because of senior credits I will be by midterms) yields 19%. So although the 650-690 CR is 8.8%, I am sure that my chances are not just 8.8% due to my higher scores in other sections and tests.</p>

<p>If you look at princeton’s site, 2100-2290 yields an 11.4% admit rate, which is probably higher for a 2250 since that is in the upper portion of that category. The 25% CR score is 690, so my score is only 20 points off. Statistically, according to the collegeboard, those are basically the same scores.</p>

<p>For princeton, let us examine the % URMs. 6.8% hispanic, 7.3% black. Added together that is 14.1%. Not all athletes are recruited, and probably very few actually are recruited and accepted solely for athletics. Furthermore, just because 14.1% of those accepted are of URM status, that does not necessarily imply that they were all admitted because of affirmative action. You seem to be going on the assumption that they all scored badly on their tests and had much lower GPAs. That is most definitely not the case. Of course, some did, but not all. Even if all the URMs were to dominate the lowest echelon of the SAT ranges, they still would not fill up to the 25th percentile of scores because there are only 14.1% of them. I believe that now legacies are not being given as much of a bump in admissions, and although they have higher admit rates, it is most likely due to the fact that they are a more qualified pool of applicants than regular applicants (upbringing? parents had better education? better salary? better opportunity?).</p>

<p>At brown, 29% are people of color (ie URM). I will also assume that although brown has athletic teams in DI, most of the people that play for their teams were not actually recruited (only a small amount were). If we just focus on URMs for now, it would take another 11% of people to reach your 40% mark of those who are “hooked”. Again, I will go on the bold assumption that all of those URMs were not dummies in school and that at least some of them were not affirmative action babies. The 25th percentile for CR for brown and upenn is 650, of which I am above, albeit not by much.</p>

<p>From what I gather, for me to be an automatic reject because of my CR score, all the URMs would have had to have been dummies and had wicked low SAT scores (all of them), all the athletes that were recruited would have had the lowest SAT scores, and some hooked candidates would have been in that lower range. I am not sure if that is really logically sound to go on that great of an assumption.</p>

<p>So just to reiterate, my question is: will that one score just kill the rest of my application (my self studied exams, my ecs (which are not terrible but are not intel sts), essays, grades, other test scores)???</p>

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<p>Actually, the schools that accept fewer than 1 in 10 need a reason to accept you, most fully qualified unhooked candidates with every stat above the 75th percentile get rejected. Once the stats are there, ECs, recs and essays become important.</p>

<p>Here’s what the hooked look like at ivies:</p>

<p>recruited athletes: 17%
URMs 15-20%
legacies: 12-15%
development/staff 2-5%</p>

<p>These are the kids who make up the bottom 25%. Heck, most of the bottom 50%. Sure, a few others slip in, but there’s a reason. English is not their first language or they are Emma Watson or the son of a politician. </p>

<p>Your anecdotes are just that. You don’t know who checked the Hispanic box or who had a rich alum pull for them. In 2 full years in an ivy admissions office and 3 years part time, I saw very consistent standards applied to the unhooked. </p>

<p>All scores are not treated equally. The CR score is the most critical. If you want to believe you’ll get into an ivy as an unhooked candidate with a score below the 25%, I can only wish you luck.</p>

<p>This might be a debate if you had won Seimens or spent summers at RSI and TASP, but there’s not even a stand out EC to give them pause. Honestly, with a 750CR, chances at HYPS would have still been very slim as you’re not val or sal and don’t have an EC at they level they look for.</p>

<p>You may well get into JHU and have a good shot at CMU, but that score will be an issue at all ivies.</p>

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<p>That didn’t answer my question though. See, my other stats are up there, just not CR. While it is true that a lot of unhooked applicants in the 75% range + do get rejected, it is not because of their stats. There is a threshold where stats do not make much of an impact (except maybe for waitlists or rejections just because they need to cut down in admittee size). So what I am asking is if a 670 CR score is below that threshold? Is it so low that is completely damages any other aspect of my application?</p>

<p>Also, 17% of brown’s class had SAT scores of 650-690, so I am sure that there is a sizeable group that had a score in that range.</p>

<p>On the subject of extracurriculars, while I agree that none of my activities will make anyone **** their pants in shock and awe, I do not believe that they are just bland. I have my own tutoring business that I run. This summer, the other two founders of the engineering club and I set up a program for this year in which we will work with MIT seniors for club projects (I mean, come on, that has to show some initiative). I also have been doing web design related activities for a long long time. As a for pay hobby, I am building a website right now that should be up before I get my applications in. I was personally appointed by our superintendent to a town wide committee (most people just sign up for those things in our town, but I was selected). For my sport, I have been involved in it in many different ways. I help out with the youth team, I am a leader on the team, I do offseason work, and I am accomplished in the sport. I mean, I know that I never decided to do research or anything, but that is because I did not want to do that. I wanted to learn what I wanted to learn and incorporate it into my other academic activities.</p>

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<p>im not really qualified to chance you, but i will tell you this: someone from my school last year got into harvard with a lesser gpa (4.2UW) and i think an ACT of 31 or 32 (could be wrong, im not sure if she sent in her ACT or SAT score, idk what her SAT score was).</p>

<p>anyways, her ECs were no better than yours. i really do think you will get in to a few of those ivies. if the person i knew got into the hardest one with lesser academic stats, im sure youll get in.</p>

<p>her dad died the year before and shes asian (plus we’re in hawaii, maybe a little geographical diversity helped), but i dont think thats what really got her in to harvard. take it for what it is, you’ll be fine man.</p>

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<p>Guys I will just say you cannot compare one person to another because each person has different circumstances in their lives than another person. For example those people who may have gotten in with lower stats could have been from a poor family or might have had something else they did.</p>

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<p>BTW this is again just directed at hmom5 because I doubt her info and logic:</p>

<p>Where are you obtaining your information for the recruited athletes, developmental, and legacy? I doubt that 25% are developmental cases. Also, as I said before, although there are that many URMs, are you suggesting that they are all morons and that no sizeable group of them obtained solid test scores? Athletes…come on. There may be 17% of the ivy population involved in athletics, but you cannot possibly tell me that 17% were recruited and admitted solely to play sports.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I don’t know why or even what you are arguing about. Nobody is saying it’s impossible to get in with your stats, but would you rather have a chance closer to 1 in 5 or 1 in 10? Is there some reason you are so opposed to giving the CR section another go?</p>

<p>From what I know hmom worked many years in Ivy admissions and gives her advice on here from her experience and out of the goodness of her heart to help people get into these universities.</p>

<p>Logically I would ask, if you know everything, why are you asking such lesser beings to chance you?</p>

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<p>Cicero, you spout every myth as though it were fact.</p>

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<p>A hard read of any of the common data sets will show you this is simply untrue.</p>

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<p>Once again, wrong. They are accepted at more than double the rate at the least generous ivy and triple the rate at Princeton.</p>

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<p>Here I’d agree. They are probably about 15-20% at Brown.</p>

<p>Cicero, Do your homework. If you feel your ECs will stand out enough to put you into a top ivy, maybe I’m missing something in the reading. Your stats certainly put it in the realm of possibility if an adcom latched onto something they thought was exceptional.</p>

<p>You asked for opinions and I gave you my read. You are a strong math/science student but have nothing competitive in these areas and no major awards. There are tons of applicants fitting that description. Your CR score isn’t just blah, that would be 740, it’s below the 25th percentile at the top ivies. You are from an overrepresented state and I’m assuming you’re white or Asian and not poor or first generation. Any of those tip factors whould certainly make Penn more likely.</p>

<p>Just one person’s read. Many, many kids will tell you you’ll get in.</p>

<p>In answer to post #16–do your homework, all of these stats are published in many places. A book called “The Price Of Admission” by Golden should be a real eye opener for you. There you will find that 17% of ivy students are recruited athletes and many other facts of ivy admissions.</p>

<p>This article can get you started:</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-09/dirty-secrets-of-college-admissions/full/[/url]”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-09/dirty-secrets-of-college-admissions/full/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I was a little off. At Amherst it’s 20% and at Dartmouth last year it was 18%. Here’s a quick primer:</p>

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<p>[Gaining</a> Admission: Athletes Win Preference - The New York Times](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/07/education/gaining-admission-athletes-win-preference.html?pagewanted=1]Gaining”>http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/07/education/gaining-admission-athletes-win-preference.html?pagewanted=1)</p>