Chance twin daughter #1 - [VT resident, 3.8 UW GPA, History/Art History, ~<$60k]

First of two - thought it was easiest to split into separate threads

US citizen
Vermont
Public HS approximately 950 students
Female

Intended Major(s) - likely History, Art History, or Museum Studies

Unweighted HS GPA: 3.8 (3.5 in 9th grade - entire year was remote, 4.0 since)
No class rank or ACT/SAT scores

Coursework
7 APs. 4 this year, 3 last year - AP World History 4, AP Lang & Comp 3, AP Environmental Sci 3.
3 years Latin, 3 years German.

Awards
Top 3 state finalist in Impromptu Speech x2

Extracurriculars
Leader Speech & Debate Club
Freshman Peer Leader - competitive program
Part-time Retail Job - 12th grade
Track & Winter Track - 11 & 12th grades
Summer - Outdoor Leadership Training Course x2
Volunteer - approx 150 hours

Strong LORs

Moved from Ohio to Vermont following 9th grade.

Cost Constraints / Budget
Ideally <$60k/year

Schools
Reach -
Vassar (possible ED, uncertain)
Wellesley

Hard Target -

  • Connecticut College
  • Smith

Match -

  • University of Vermont - EA

Likely -

  • Marist
    (Note: need to add additional likelies, considering Muhlenberg, St. Michael’s, St. Lawrence)

Her current favorites in order - Vassar, Conn, UVM, Smith/Wellesley (last two tied)

Confused - it’s a bit different than the other one but similar.

Unless you have demonstrated need, forget Vassar and Wellesley - you won’t get close. No merit.

Conn is possible but not likely to get you there.

Marist will - and there’s plenty others like Marist out there.

I just saw Museum Studies - check out the Minor at Beloit…great merit and many on here promote it for that area of study.

Good luck.

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Test scores will help your D’s (even at test optional schools IMHO). The gap between their GPA’s and performance on AP’s for example- suggests either grade inflation or “not fantastic teaching”. Sorry to be blunt. The 4’s are great; the 3’s start to slide into grade inflation territory if these are classes where your kids got A’s and/or a curriculum which is not aligned to the national “this is what you are expected to master”.

For both D’s to show high scores (commensurate with their grades) on a standardized test is going to help the fact that they attended a rural school which perhaps doesn’t send many kids to Wellesley/Smith, etc.

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I will defer to others, but I think UVM is very possible.

I think this is a good list assuming you qualify for need based aid. I assume you’ve run the net price calculator at Vassar. My D did ED there a few years ago and her financial aid package was actually better than that shown on the NPC (have heard similar from others) though I wouldn’t count on that - my point is the NPC is accurate. Vassar is need blind in admissions. Good luck and feel free to PM if she has any vassar specific questions. My D is very happy there.

Just to add two suggestions - agree with the Beloit suggestion if she’s willing to leave the northeast and suggest looking at bard which is a bit of an easier admit.

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Thanks. She has ALWAYS done poorly at standardized tests; not entirely sure why, but has been true since elementary school. (4th grade teacher was shocked at her 60th percentile scores. “This is not the kid that I see every day in class.” That theme has held constant.) Other standardized test scores are probably not going to be a boost for her.

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Thanks. Definitely does not want to leave the Northeast and really did not like Bard. Bard tour guides did not make it seem like an inviting atmosphere.

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Thanks. My daughters have some similarities on paper, but are very different kids. Daughter 1 skews towards things that require subjective analysis and is good at analytical writing. Daughter 2 skews towards things that require clear right/wrong answers and has an innate sense of curiosity.

We’re on the bubble with need, mostly because we’ll have two in school at the same time. Have heard conflicting reports on how schools will be determining need with upcoming FAFSA changes. Some (Vassar) have said that since they rely on CSS, they take into account two kids in school at the same time. Others have said it’s all going to be down to federal methodology. In looking at current NPCs and taking 2 into account, most have us pegged with parental contribution around $60k and remaining falling into demonstrated need.

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Good to know about Vassar.

Thanks.

I think FAFSA and Institutional need are vastly different. If a school helps with two kids now, they likely will later. FAFSA is federal aid - you get a $5500 loan by completing. Many privates will use CSS on top of Fafsa To determine need aid.

Schools like Miami of Ohio - maybe not Northeast - but don’t factor tests into merit. You might be $70-80k for both. Western Carolina - $50k for both. Combined. So depending on how important overall costs is to you ….maybe geography becomes secondary ? Especially when you take that difference over four years.

Schools like Juniata, Susquehanna may be worth a look.

Go to #60 and anything lower east coast will likely come under $60k. Most anyway. You can check and see who offers merit. Many schools will come out far less than $60k. They need bodies.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges

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Daughter 1 really wants to be within a 4 hour drive. Daughter 2 is more open to going farther.

Agree with you that FAFSA and Institutional Need are different, we haven’t yet seen how feds removing multi-child considerations with the shift from EFC to SAI. Under old methodology, we’d absolutely have demonstrated need in the eyes of USDOE. Under new methodology, we won’t because they won’t take multiple students at the same time into consideration. So it remains to be seen how schools will view our need. Will they base it on the federal methodology or otherwise? We haven’t gotten to implementation yet, so I don’t know. I’ve gotten mixed messages from financial aid staff on what will be the case.

Will definitely look deeper into east coast LACs. This is also why there has been increased interest in small Canadian universities; annual cost at any of them is less than in-state at UVM.

Really…all this would have netted your kids if they were eligible was some portion of the Pell Grant, maybe college work study. And partially subsidized Direct loans.

Any additional aid would have been institutional aid anyway…and with only a couple of exceptions, colleges using only the FAFSA do not guarantee to award institutional aid to meet your need…and they usually don’t.

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Thank you. I’ve gotten mixed messages from financial aid officers on the issue about how they will calculate demonstrated need under the simplified FAFSA. Even though things are changing, do you believe it is accurate to trust the NPCs on school websites for the next academic year?

I would say…not yet…only because the final FAFSA really hasn’t been released yet.

@Mwfan1921 @kelsmom whats your opinion?

Not every school uses CSS - so that might impact them more (those that don’t).

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Look into Wheaton (MA).

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Thanks. That’s what has been driving my anxiety about the shift.

Don’t be anxious - you have 20 common app spots.

Apply to schools you know will work. Many publics have a lower COA than $60K up front and some will tell you in the NPC what you’ll earn in scholarship - Hofstra does that (or did two years ago).

$60K is a ton of money - and you’ll achieve that easily - but not with schools like Wellesley, Wesleyan or Vassar unless their NPCs say so.

You have 20 Common App spots - and forget $60K, even $50K and lower - you’ll have a ton of options, etc.

Good luck.

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