Chances at Lehigh, Penn State, Tulane, UNC-Chapel Hill, Villanova, Colgate, Bucknell, UWisconsin

So, B average, 1180 SAT/29 ACT, solid but not exceptional ECs
First choices: Lehigh & Bucknell

@twogirls points out that your expectations and prospects are out of alignment:

In other words, your stats don’t make you a shoo-in for schools that you scorn, and you don’t have any “crappy private” schools on your list.

I don’t usually get into the weeds of ‘chancing’ specific schools, but you are likely to be happier with your choices come next spring if you re-calibrate your expectations now.

You can delete UNC and UVA from your list. Both have hard caps on the number of OOS students that they are allowed (by law) to accept, and your stats won’t do it.

Realistically, you can delete Georgetown, Dartmouth and Cornell as well. Your ACT puts you in the bottom 20% of accepted students for Georgetown, and they explicitly require you to send all test scores (so you would have to send both your ACT & SAT, and all sittings). Your ACT is in the bottom 25% for Dartmouth and 20% for Cornell, and ~90%+ of accepted Dartmouth and Cornell students are in the top 10% of their class.

I agree with the poster who suggested figuring out which of your two preferred schools (Lehigh & Bucknell) is your favorite and going ED.

@twogirls @wisteria100 I don’t know anything about Georgetown, but I think UNC students are more down-to-earth than students at some of the Ivy League schools. They are not as privileged. Most are middle class and upper middle class and got there through hard work on their own. I know a certain dean who agrees with me too.

FWIW I know a lot of UNC grads working at Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, McKinsey etc.

@Cw82200 - you need to be very careful applying to an undergrad business program without taking calculus in high school. I think you have a chance at Bucknell and Lehigh if you apply ED. Elon and UDelaware are safeties for you. Unfortunately, I don’t think you will be accepted at Tulane, Cornell, Dartmouth, UVA, Villanova, Notre Dame and Georgetown or Boston College. Good luck.

@Jbwag1 - I am a Georgetown alum with a daughter who was accepted to Georgetown this past March. I am sorry to say that once she received acceptances on Ivy day and then got into Stanford she did not even bother attending the GAAP open house weekend. I personally know 8 kids going to Georgetown next year. One girl picked Georgetown over the University of Chicago. For the other seven, Georgetown is the top school they got into.

@twogirls Personally, I think that if Georgetown cared about appearances, it would do so many things differently and I’m not going to get into that because I don’t want to spend the next hour typing up a five-point thesis about why I believe Gtown rocks and does it’s own thing- and by the way, I’m sure you could do something similar with UNC.

I’m reluctant to say this, because I don’t want to feed the conflict, but I think it’s a fairly flimsy point to just say “Oh UNC doesn’t care about that stuff, we’re too principled”, really? Does UNC really not care? Are the students there really that different from any other student at any other top school? Like honestly. first off it’s really easy to apply there, no subject tests, interview, it’s on the common app, it superscores, etc. so I don’t think that’s true, at least I see nothing different from any other top school. Yeah it’s essay questions are unique but they’re not like, say, UChicago’s, you know? They’re just fresh questions- not super hard but also not recyclable, and that’s kind of a minimum requirement for any school that wants to claim to be a top school. Georgetown’s app is arguably the most rigorous in the world of undergraduate admissions, with MIT being the only other competitor, and it’s basically weeded at least the bottom 20% by the time the apps are submitted. It definitely takes a certain level of self-belief to go through Gtown’s app process, let alone successfully. (And as an aside, I’d say Gtown and MIT are tied. Go MIT seriously, my brother is applying there next year :slight_smile: )

Also it’s great that kids there are principled, and I believe you. Like I said, I’ve met UNC kids and they all ROCK. I could never diss UNC. But first off, I think that ANYONE can say that about their school- that the kids there are a special bunch, so grounded that they don’t feel the need to compare their school, etc. because at every school, even the ones known universally as backups- not going to name names- there are niches of people who genuinely wanted to go there. Also even if people end up at a place they initially didn’t have listed as a first choice, it doesn’t mean they feel the need to compare, most just move on from their rejection from their first choice and make the most of what they have, and if they’re UNC/Gtown/top school worthy, I’m sure they’re all doing more than fine. Anyway, it’s an argument that sounds good at first, but literally anyone could make it about any school, especially if they’ve done any amount of research on their school to understand what makes it unique. There is no school that’s so generic that someone who has bonded with it can’t make an argument that it’s unique and its kids are special as well as so enamored by what the school is and what it has to offer that they’re willing to look past prestige to go there. I mean, most top schools, in the eyes of most kids attending other top schools, nothing more than other top schools. But to people who attend these top schools themselves, they’re so much more than that- EVERY school is special to most people who go to those schools. UNC is special to you, Georgetown to me, Dartmouth to a Dartmouth kid, etc.

Also, at some point, especially from a career perspective, all those shallow things like prestige and stuff REALLY DO matter, and it sucks, but it’s life. Because you know what? Goldman Sachs is going to take the frickin art history major from a place like UNC or Georgetown over the quantitative econ/stats double major from State school X any day. This is a fact. Do you know why? PRESTIGE. They know kids from schools like UNC and Gtown are going to be brilliant and motivated, simply because they went to these schools, and kids from these kinds of schools are known products because top firms get kids from them all the time. Also, when you come from a great school, the employer knows almost for a fact that you’re not one of those people who slacked throughout high school, had an epiphany in college that you need to work hard and make sacrifices to succeed, then started working hard. Instead, they know almost for a fact that you HAVE BEEN grinding for at least four years before you went to that college, and thus have a track record of excellence, which is very important. Of two people with comparable resumes, I’ll take the one who’s been busting his/her hump for 8 years over the one who just got his/her crap together and is still learning the ropes of what it takes to do well. I mean, a degree from a great school is kind of like a big fat sticker on your forehead that says “Look at me, I’m most likely not an idiot and I’ve also been a standout for at least a good bit of my life, I was even cranking out results during those years of high school when the only goals my peers had revolved around getting laid, wasted, high, or a combination of the three!” Now, with that being said, both UNC and Gtown have enough prestige that their kids will do just as good as anyone else at a top school, and still better than kids at the majority of schools- both schools place you on an awesome trajectory.

People at UNC and Georgetown both accomplish insane things, and I don’t think any kids from any of these top schools spend a lot of time getting caught up in how exactly “prestigious” their school is, if so, neither would have the accomplished superstars that it does among its alumni, and the small armies of major achievements among these alumni to brag about. I say this because you seemed to imply that the main way in which Gtown students and UNC students are different is that Gtown students are too busy being preoccupied with the great people Gtown attracts and turns out. I disagree with this, part of what attracted me to Georgetown over 6 other schools in the top 15 was this exact reason- Georgetown was so comfortable being Georgetown. It has really created a distinct culture and vibe and stuck with it and wears it like a frickin badge. Same with the kids there, they all bled Hoya Blue and Gray, and just loved everything about where they were. That’s what made me fall in love, as cheesy as that sounds. It was the infectious nad optimistic enthusiasm of a bunch of kids who couldn’t possibly be happier where they are while at the same tiem know they’re being set up for a great future. Whereas at a few Ivies and other top schools I felt as if most kids were there just because it was the most prestigious schools they could swing, and there was an undercurrent of bitterness that they weren’t somewhere just one or two notches higher on US news. On the admitted students weekend for one Ivy in particular, which shall remain nameless, several student leaders compared the school to several other top schools several times, one time even referencing US news rankings, and it just came off as sour grapes, you know?
Lastly, I’ll admit that yeah, Gtown students- while obviously an amazing bunch- do care quite a bit about the royalty and such that have attended, maybe even a little too much. I also guarantee you that the day the Prince of Jordan goes to UNC will be the day UNC kids there start to care as well. Not even to be snobby, but I mean literally last year that guy graduated from Georgetown and to me that’s just really cool. Like he was in Jordan for 18 years of his life just doing Prince-y stuff, spent four years at Gtown, now he’s back being a frickin prince. Like you can’t tell me that you wouldn’t think it was cool if a member of a royal family decided to swing by your school and get a degree there. I mean it definitely adds a little icing to the cake of validation for working like a dog in high school to know you’re going to the same institution as actual kings, princes, princesses, etc.

Bottom line- Georgetown and UNC are both amazing. Georgetown was right for me, UNC for you. I just felt I needed to clear a few things up. Deal?

@Testingearly I mean at that point it really depends on what she’s interested in. There could be a million reasons someone would choose Stanford over Georgetown if they have particular interests and goals, and vice versa for Georgetown over Stanford. I mean I chose Georgetown over Wharton, Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Northwestern, Tufts, and a free ride to Indiana University’s honors college. I also got waitlisted at Harvard and Yale but didn’t accept the offer because Gtown was my number one. In my experience so far, this is a fairly common thing among kids at Georgetown. In fact most of the kids I’ve met so far have turned down at least one great school to come here. I guess it’s all anecdotal and we can never get anywhere arguing over anecdotes and personal stories. I know kids turn down Georgetown for other top schools, just like kids here turn down other top schools for here.The point is they’re all amazing schools, and they don’t need us to prove that. They speak for themselves. It’s just at that high level of prestige, an applicant’s decision depends so much on what kind of vibe, career, academic, social, etc. interests the applicant has. Let’s leave it at that.

I have similar stats to you and I got into Villanova, Bucknell, and Lehigh. If you look at my profile you could get more information. I think you have great chances at those schools. However, I did apply engineering